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Opportunities and Challenges of Implementation Research to Prevent and Control Noncommunicable Disease in LMICs: The Nepal Experience

February 12, 2024
  • 00:00<v ->Legislation coordination committee.</v>
  • 00:02She is also the Country Director for Nepal,
  • 00:06for the Northern Pacific Global Health Research Fellows
  • 00:09Training Consortium.
  • 00:11She leads multiple implementation science research projects
  • 00:14to prevent non-communicable diseases,
  • 00:16including cervical cancer, cardiovascular disease
  • 00:20and diabetes.
  • 00:21She and I have been working together for the past six years.
  • 00:25She originally came to work with me when I was at Harvard
  • 00:29as a part of my NIH Director's Pioneer Award,
  • 00:33and we started to develop some of these research projects
  • 00:36that Dr. Shrestha is gonna talk about.
  • 00:38But she's also gone off in her own directions as well.
  • 00:42And we've continued to work together, we're co-PIs,
  • 00:46or I'm site PI of multiple grants
  • 00:49that she has led the submission of and succeeded in winning.
  • 00:53And it's a very productive relationship.
  • 00:56We've had many, many papers published.
  • 00:59She's also an Adjunct Assistant Professor
  • 01:01in our Chronic Disease Epidemiology Department here at Yale.
  • 01:05And she's available for discussions with students
  • 01:10and other researchers here in the Yale community.
  • 01:12She has lots of data that she can collaborate
  • 01:15in the analysis of, and many ideas for other projects
  • 01:19that could be conducted in Nepal.
  • 01:22So, she'll be here until Friday
  • 01:24and she probably still has a few slots available
  • 01:28in her schedule.
  • 01:29And if you would like to meet with her
  • 01:31to discuss any of these things further,
  • 01:33you can also get in touch with William Tootle
  • 01:36who's managing her itinerary.
  • 01:38So, I'd like to turn this over to Dr. Shrestha now
  • 01:42and I'm really looking forward to her talk.
  • 01:44Thanks so much everybody for joining us
  • 01:47and for Dr. Shrestha for traveling all the way over here
  • 01:52in somewhat in the midst of COVID to meet with us
  • 01:56and give this presentation today.
  • 02:00<v ->Thank you, Donna, for such a wonderful introduction.</v>
  • 02:05And thank you everyone for those who are present
  • 02:10in-person in this room and then those who are joining online
  • 02:13and Zoom, thank you so much for your time and interest.
  • 02:17So, today's talk is gonna be a little very informal
  • 02:21kind of discussion on opportunities and challenges
  • 02:24of implementation research to prevent
  • 02:27and control non-communicable diseases in LMIC.
  • 02:30And I'll be sharing a lot of my experience from Nepal.
  • 02:34And I think that a lot of these challenges,
  • 02:37would be also applicable to other parts of the world
  • 02:42where the resources are limited to do these kinds of work.
  • 02:47And my talk would be like more about a general introduction
  • 02:51of what we are doing in Nepal in collaboration with CMIPS
  • 02:57and the second part would be
  • 03:00like what were the major opportunities and challenges
  • 03:02and specific to doing the implementation research
  • 03:05in that context.
  • 03:07So, let me give you like a...
  • 03:09Let me start with a brief introduction of Nepal.
  • 03:14It's a small country in between India and China,
  • 03:18located in Southeast Asia.
  • 03:21And compared to US, it's about 67 times smaller than the US.
  • 03:29There are 11 times fewer people
  • 03:31that live in Nepal compared to US.
  • 03:34The per capita GDP is only 4.3% of the US per capita GDP
  • 03:40and life expectancy is about nine years less
  • 03:44than that of US.
  • 03:48And then Nepal's life expectancy
  • 03:51has been increasing over the past few decades
  • 03:53and then it's expected to keep increasing.
  • 03:57And with this longevity,
  • 03:59a lot of non-communicable diseases
  • 04:01and chronic diseases have crossed our paths.
  • 04:05And if we look at the population pyramid of 2020,
  • 04:11there were lots of bulk of the population
  • 04:17were towards the base of the pyramid,
  • 04:20indicating that lots of young population was in the country.
  • 04:24But the prediction for 2025 shows that we will have
  • 04:29this population pyramid changed by then
  • 04:31and with a lot of middle aged population growing.
  • 04:37<v Donna>Archana, could you go back</v>
  • 04:38to that slide for a second?
  • 04:40It's a little hard to read what the x-axis is and the-
  • 04:43<v ->Oh, sorry.</v> <v ->The chart that-</v>
  • 04:45<v ->So this one?</v>
  • 04:47Yeah, this is year.
  • 04:48<v ->So what's the first year?</v>
  • 04:50<v Archana>1990.</v>
  • 04:51<v ->So that's like a remarkable increase in life expectancy</v>
  • 04:56over a very, very short period of time.
  • 04:59I'm wondering if you could say a little bit
  • 05:01about has that been researched at all?
  • 05:04Is it known or is there good evidence
  • 05:08for why there was this remarkable increase
  • 05:11over such a short period of time where,
  • 05:13what was it? It was like, what was it like in 19?
  • 05:17What did it start at?
  • 05:18Like 55 to 60, so is that what it's hard to read,
  • 05:24but that's the y-axis.
  • 05:25<v ->So in 1990s it was about around around 55 to 60.</v>
  • 05:29And then by 2019 it's a lot about like 72 years.
  • 05:34So a lot of it is contributed
  • 05:37to improvement in maternal child health,
  • 05:40specifically infant mortality rate.
  • 05:42Actually, Nepal was one of the countries that made
  • 05:45that achieved the million development goal
  • 05:48in relation to infant mortality rate.
  • 05:50And the infant mortality rate decreased really rapidly
  • 05:53during that time.
  • 05:54And that is considered one of the major contributors
  • 05:57to what's increasing life expectancy.
  • 06:01<v Donna>And what did Nepal do to break down</v>
  • 06:03that actual mortality?
  • 06:04<v ->A lot of things they were like,</v>
  • 06:08so Nepal's health system was just built
  • 06:14to address maternal child health and infant mortality
  • 06:18and communicable diseases.
  • 06:20So we actually started pretty late
  • 06:23in terms of health system.
  • 06:25We started in 1978 after the Alma-Ata conference
  • 06:28when the primary healthcare was very advocated.
  • 06:33And the Nepal health system was built in '80s,
  • 06:37basically from '84 to '90.
  • 06:40And the government were very progressive towards that
  • 06:45and we built a health system that reached each
  • 06:48and every corner of the country, even the most modest areas.
  • 06:52So all of the villages had at least one
  • 06:55or two health centers
  • 06:56and they had primary healthcare outreach centers.
  • 06:59So from these health centers people,
  • 07:01they were called village health workers were assigned
  • 07:05to run these outreach centers every month they would go
  • 07:09like 5 to 7 times to different parts of the villages
  • 07:12that were not accessible.
  • 07:13And then they distribute family planning,
  • 07:15they did immunization, child growth monitoring
  • 07:19and antenatal care, postnatal care.
  • 07:23So a lot of health system developed during that time.
  • 07:28And it also significantly contributed to maternal
  • 07:32like improvement in maternal child health and reduced,
  • 07:38that's from malaria, tuberculosis.
  • 07:40And Nepal is also has the widest network of dots
  • 07:44and malarias treatment centers,
  • 07:47even in the most remote area,
  • 07:50there is availability of testing for TB
  • 07:53and then there is availability of the dots.
  • 07:55So yeah, I think that was a big leap
  • 07:59for a country like Nepal
  • 08:01and that it is considered one of the successful model.
  • 08:05In fact, the kind of network that it has,
  • 08:08we have like 48,000 volunteers.
  • 08:12In each ward, what is the smallest administrative unit
  • 08:16in Nepal?
  • 08:16In every ward it has one female community health volunteers
  • 08:21who are trained in health.
  • 08:24They get like one month of training
  • 08:26and then are refresher courses every two years.
  • 08:30And these volunteers are connection
  • 08:32between the community and health centers.
  • 08:35And there were the female married,
  • 08:39female of reproductive health who had at least one child
  • 08:42with selected for that volunteer work.
  • 08:46And each woman have, like each volunteer has a network,
  • 08:51a women's group or mother's group in their community.
  • 08:55So whenever someone becomes mother, they join that group
  • 08:58and every month they run health education
  • 09:02or immuno like, and they help with the immunization,
  • 09:07they help with vitamin A distribution in children.
  • 09:10So a lot of community mobilization and social mobilization,
  • 09:14connection of community to the health center.
  • 09:17Each health center has a community-based committee
  • 09:22that has like chairperson of that ward
  • 09:26and then health volunteers like leaders, teachers,
  • 09:29and then they make a joint decisions about the health
  • 09:32of that specific community.
  • 09:33So it's very primary healthcare is very community-based
  • 09:36and it reached to each and every household
  • 09:39and that that is the biggest strength
  • 09:41of the health system in Nepal.
  • 09:43It's quite rare even in the context of low resource setting.
  • 09:49Yeah, and then that has been this network,
  • 09:53also has been now being explored
  • 09:55to deliver the non-communicable diseases.
  • 10:01<v Attendee>Is the 2025 demographic transition,</v>
  • 10:04is that more of like a target or is it more like?
  • 10:08<v ->It's more like forecast?</v>
  • 10:11<v ->I have another question.</v>
  • 10:14It seems like this,
  • 10:15what you've described depends pretty heavily on volunteers,
  • 10:19which from kind of an American point of view,
  • 10:21like it's hard to imagine
  • 10:22that so many people would volunteer and be reliable,
  • 10:26and continue without getting paid.
  • 10:29And is it really true that these volunteers
  • 10:31like are consistently doing this kind of work
  • 10:33and they're not getting paid?
  • 10:35<v ->Yeah, yeah, it's since 1980.</v>
  • 10:37So the first volunteers were recruited in 1984
  • 10:41and since then they have been working
  • 10:43like they are above around 50,000 volunteers
  • 10:45all around Nepal.
  • 10:48And they get paid really, really minimal.
  • 10:50Like the days they work, they get paid about $2.50
  • 10:55for that day.
  • 10:56So let's say if they are,
  • 10:59vitamin A distribution is very successful in Nepal,
  • 11:02like on all on five children get vitamin eight twice a year
  • 11:06and there is a coverage of more than 95%.
  • 11:08And these volunteers do that.
  • 11:11So the day they are distributing vitamin A, they get $2.50.
  • 11:15It's very minimal even in context of them.
  • 11:20And there has been debate whether a government
  • 11:21should pay them or not.
  • 11:23And then with the like expansion of lot
  • 11:26of programs in the health sector
  • 11:27or health sector, like they are considered one
  • 11:30of the biggest liaison between the community
  • 11:34and health center and then
  • 11:37like a role models for awareness raising and all that.
  • 11:40So anyway, so and then this brings to like
  • 11:44how Nepal's health system was like really created
  • 11:48to address maternal child health
  • 11:50and to address the non-communicable diseases.
  • 11:53And then over the last, from 2009 to 2019,
  • 11:58if we look at what has changed, the top 10 cause of death
  • 12:03and disability is still neonatal disorder,
  • 12:05but it has decreased with about 38% in the past decade.
  • 12:12And non-communicable diseases like such as COPD,
  • 12:16ischemic heart disease, stroke, cirrhosis, depression,
  • 12:21low back pain has increased.
  • 12:24So currently, non-communicable diseases
  • 12:28are the number one cause of that in Nepal as well.
  • 12:31And if we look at the risk factors contributing
  • 12:35to these daily, malnutrition is still number one.
  • 12:39But if you look at the change, there is 46% reduction
  • 12:43since 2009 to 2019.
  • 12:47Reduction to air pollution,
  • 12:48but increase in tobacco conjunction, high blood pressure,
  • 12:52the dietary risk.
  • 12:53And if you look at like high body mass index,
  • 12:56like hoping 95% increase from 2009 to 2019.
  • 13:01So these all data indicates towards
  • 13:04like how Nepal is now vulnerable
  • 13:06to the non-communicable disease.
  • 13:08There is existence of dual burden of disease,
  • 13:11like even within a how one household you can find
  • 13:13a malnourished child and overweight mother.
  • 13:18So that's kind of nutrition and epidemiological transition
  • 13:24that our country is facing.
  • 13:28So today, I'm just focusing on three studies
  • 13:32that we are conducting in collaboration
  • 13:35with CMIPS School of Public Health in Nepal.
  • 13:38And these are the three very different kinds of study
  • 13:43all of them like implementation science study
  • 13:47to address non-communicable diseases in some way.
  • 13:52So the first of these studies is the,
  • 13:56we call it Nepal Pioneer Worksite Intervention Study,
  • 13:59that's when we started, it started when I was in Harvard.
  • 14:03Like I remember we, the first conversation was like
  • 14:07as early as in 2015 on November.
  • 14:11I still remember that because I went to Nepal
  • 14:13to explore like what could be done during that time.
  • 14:17And then we came up with this idea
  • 14:20that we already have a lot of evidences
  • 14:24to prove to how to modify the lifestyle
  • 14:26and how the lifestyle modification can contribute
  • 14:29to different diseases like diabetes
  • 14:31and other CVD risk factors.
  • 14:34So we designed this study
  • 14:37to prevent the cardio metabolic disorders
  • 14:41in work site setting.
  • 14:43And then I'll get in details of each of the study briefly.
  • 14:46And the second study was,
  • 14:48it is different from the previous study.
  • 14:50The previous study was more about hybrid design.
  • 14:53We were using the evidence-based intervention,
  • 14:55but we spent a lot of time doing formative study,
  • 15:00contextualizing that information into Nepal's context.
  • 15:06And this is one of the, I think,
  • 15:08one of the biggest areas in implementation science research
  • 15:12the context, how do we understand the context
  • 15:15and how we apply existing evidences
  • 15:18that were proved somewhere else like in the US
  • 15:20in Argentina and Thailand.
  • 15:23And then bring that evidences
  • 15:24and implemented in context of Nepal.
  • 15:26So we did a lot of formative study on around
  • 15:28that developed intervention
  • 15:30and then analyzed its effectiveness.
  • 15:33And second study was to evaluate the package
  • 15:36of essential non-communicable diseases in Nepal.
  • 15:38And this is now completely different intervention
  • 15:42was designed by the international agencies, WHO
  • 15:46and then WHO recommended and advocated this intervention,
  • 15:51Nepal government adopted in 2016, piloted in two districts
  • 15:55and then without evaluating it,
  • 15:57it expanded into 32 district.
  • 15:59Now the plan is to expand to all 77 district
  • 16:03and they have also started ruling out the training,
  • 16:07but nobody really knows what is really happening
  • 16:09after that training.
  • 16:10And after the 2016, is it really working, not working?
  • 16:13What's really happening in that specific context?
  • 16:16So we got R21 forward international grant
  • 16:20to study the current implementation outcomes
  • 16:23of the national program in the pilot districts.
  • 16:27And the third is the cervical cancer prevention program
  • 16:31in low resource setting.
  • 16:32It's also a pilot implementation study
  • 16:34and the implementation is a researcher initiated
  • 16:37into implementation.
  • 16:38So this is like a different touch
  • 16:41in the implementation science area.
  • 16:43So we know that HPV screening works
  • 16:48to prevent the cervical cancer,
  • 16:50but it is has not been done in Nepal.
  • 16:53Only 8% of Nepalese women have currently reported
  • 16:57to ever had any cancer screening.
  • 16:59So there is a huge gap
  • 17:01but there has been a lot of,
  • 17:03there is a national protocol as well
  • 17:06which then that advocates for VIA and SPV testing.
  • 17:11But government doesn't really have any specific plan
  • 17:15of action to how to roll this out in the country.
  • 17:18So we are planning to do a small study
  • 17:22among 1500 women and then collect these information
  • 17:25for government to roll it out throughout Nepal
  • 17:28or throughout a certain parts of the country
  • 17:31where it can work.
  • 17:37So the first study was more contextualizing,
  • 17:40second is like evaluating a national program
  • 17:42that has already been implemented in 30 days
  • 17:45like investigator initiated intervention
  • 17:48and collect information for government to scale up it
  • 17:51in further into in like around the country.
  • 17:58So William, I cannot look at the time
  • 18:01so please keep me posted.
  • 18:03<v Donna>It's only 10:25, so you've got plenty of time.</v>
  • 18:05<v ->Okay, thank you.</v>
  • 18:07So the first study is
  • 18:08the Nepal Pioneer Worksite Intervention Study.
  • 18:10This is a picture of one of the interventions that we did.
  • 18:14So employees in the work sites also got instruction
  • 18:22for physical activity
  • 18:24and we used local resources to do that.
  • 18:28Thank you so much.
  • 18:31So this study was started to assess
  • 18:38what would be the effective
  • 18:39of environmental level intervention alone
  • 18:42and individual level intervention in combination
  • 18:44with environmental level intervention on its effect
  • 18:49on the metabolic risks.
  • 18:51So we had three primary outcomes, glycated, hemoglobin,
  • 18:58systolic blood pressure and triglyceride.
  • 19:01And there's a lot of evidences
  • 19:04like a randomized control trial, meta-analysis
  • 19:06that shows that of diet and physical activity
  • 19:09does reduce the risk of cardiovascular diseases.
  • 19:12And there has been developed a lot of models
  • 19:14to deliver that into community
  • 19:16and in like penetrate in the population.
  • 19:18And one of them is diabetes prevention program,
  • 19:20which is pretty popular and it has been contextualized
  • 19:23in many countries.
  • 19:24So we took that as well.
  • 19:27And behavior change intervention
  • 19:30is also more than individual level effort.
  • 19:33So if we ask people to like eat whole grain
  • 19:36and then the whole grain is not available anywhere
  • 19:38in around and nobody can eat here it, right?
  • 19:44So we were very convinced
  • 19:48that until these healthy foods are available,
  • 19:51people will not be able to eat it.
  • 19:53So one of our biggest challenges was
  • 19:57to make these food available.
  • 19:58So that's how we added the environmental intervention
  • 20:01and we were very interested to know
  • 20:03like what would be the effect
  • 20:04of environmental intervention alone.
  • 20:06So we kind of came up with this study design,
  • 20:11let me explain like why we choose the work site
  • 20:13because employees spent a lot of their waking hours at home
  • 20:18before COVID and hopefully, in the coming days.
  • 20:22And there is also natural environment
  • 20:24for social support within our work site.
  • 20:27And we have an access to adult population
  • 20:29who are at risk to do the non-communicable diseases.
  • 20:35We have this population who are in this formal employment
  • 20:38and we can follow them for years to come.
  • 20:41In Nepal, it is very rare for the employee to quit job
  • 20:46and/or to change job if that they are,
  • 20:52most of them are find their job
  • 20:53in their hometown closer to family.
  • 20:55So it's very rare for people to like change
  • 21:00or like move from town to town in Nepal,
  • 21:01so this was a good setting in that context.
  • 21:06And also it has like formal and informal norms
  • 21:10that could facilitate the healthy choices
  • 21:12and we could have like a protected time
  • 21:16for doing some health education programs if we require.
  • 21:19So work site provided a very good platform for us
  • 21:24to deliver this intervention.
  • 21:26And we opted for
  • 21:27the environmental level works site environment
  • 21:30that included healthy foods in the canteen.
  • 21:34Cafeteria is called canteen in that part of the world.
  • 21:37So healthy food in the canteen and health screenings,
  • 21:41and management support for the lifestyle improvements.
  • 21:45And indeed there was individual level components.
  • 21:47It was based on the diabetes prevention program.
  • 21:50It has like peer lead lifestyle education,
  • 21:52weight-loss and physical activity goals
  • 21:54and 16 core courses, classes,
  • 21:57each class was one hour long.
  • 22:00First 20 minutes was about lecture.
  • 22:04Second 20 minutes was more discussion
  • 22:07about how this lifetime modification is going on
  • 22:11in their life and then experience sharing.
  • 22:14And the third, last minute was physical activity.
  • 22:16They would like come to a place, there was a specific site
  • 22:22that was dedicated for the physical activity
  • 22:24and a physiotherapist would go
  • 22:26and then they do the exercise together for 20 minutes.
  • 22:31And then we conducted the studies in three steps.
  • 22:34The first was formative study
  • 22:36and then designed the intervention based
  • 22:39on the formative study.
  • 22:40Like I would more say like adopt the intervention
  • 22:44and then test its effectiveness.
  • 22:47So we did a lot of things for formative study.
  • 22:49We were concerned about the quality of oil,
  • 22:51so we brought the oil samples from,
  • 22:54there were four canteens in this hospital
  • 22:56where we were doing this study
  • 22:59and we got oil samples from all four canteens,
  • 23:03both used oils as well as unused oil.
  • 23:06And there is this practice of reusing the oil.
  • 23:10So we were concerned
  • 23:11if the reheating or reusing the oil,
  • 23:14it might have an impact on the nutrients, oil nutrients.
  • 23:18So, but then we found that there was not much difference
  • 23:21between the used and unused oil
  • 23:23and they were all using, basically using soya bean oil,
  • 23:27vegetable oil or sunflower oil.
  • 23:31So we decide that we will not do any intervention
  • 23:36for the oil part.
  • 23:37And then the second part was,
  • 23:39which was a big challenge was,
  • 23:42we did a small study among 40 participants
  • 23:45and did brown and white rice tasting.
  • 23:49So we blinded the people, everybody would get white rice
  • 23:52or brown rice in different combination, five combinations.
  • 23:56So, and then that were randomly assigned for each day.
  • 23:59So 25% white rice, 50%, 75%, 100% white rice
  • 24:05or 0% white rice.
  • 24:06And then they would rate after they eat their lunch,
  • 24:10they would rate it in terms of
  • 24:11how do they like overall, appearance,
  • 24:14taste, aroma and texture.
  • 24:16So 100% brown rice was not that much liked,
  • 24:20and then these people are eating brown rice
  • 24:22for the first time, even Nepal has been like,
  • 24:24its stapled food is rice.
  • 24:27Everybody eats rice two times a day and a huge hip of rice.
  • 24:33And then so we took upon the taste and aroma
  • 24:38that were rated for 50% brown and 50% white rice
  • 24:41and 100% white rice were rated similarly.
  • 24:43And then texture was even it's 50/50 was better,
  • 24:49rated better than 100% brown rice.
  • 24:50So we started to introduce the brown rice
  • 24:54by mixing 50% brown rice, 50% white rice in the cafeteria.
  • 24:58And we also conducted the focus group discussions
  • 25:02with the cafeteria clients.
  • 25:04And this paper has been published
  • 25:07and then one of the big major facilitators
  • 25:10was the availability of healthy foods in the cafeteria.
  • 25:13And major barrier was human resources
  • 25:16and lack of knowledge in the canteen,
  • 25:19chef and a person working in the cafeteria,
  • 25:23and then difficulty in changing the food habits.
  • 25:26Like it's food is culture, it's not just a thing
  • 25:29that you eat, it's like it's more into your social structure
  • 25:33and culture so those were identified
  • 25:37and from the canteen operator's point of view,
  • 25:41we found that making profit was not a priority
  • 25:45in that context.
  • 25:46So that was a good facilitator for us.
  • 25:49And they also had a physical facility and commitment,
  • 25:54and the barrier was again the lack of human resources
  • 25:56in the canteen, they were not aware about healthy food
  • 26:01and how to like modify their existing recipe
  • 26:04to convert the food into like healthy options.
  • 26:06And then lastly, we also analyzed the seals
  • 26:09of the cafeteria in the past year.
  • 26:11And then we wanted to focus on those foods
  • 26:14that were being sold in maximum volume.
  • 26:18So we selected like...
  • 26:22We categorized foods into different categories
  • 26:27based on how much were they sold.
  • 26:29And then we focused on those that were sold
  • 26:31like more than 10,000 items in that year.
  • 26:37And based on these information,
  • 26:38we had actually four stakeholders meetings
  • 26:43with the cafeteria manager,
  • 26:45like the administrative director of the hospital.
  • 26:50And then we formed our canteen improvement team
  • 26:57in the hospital and that has like people from finance
  • 27:00because one of the things that we identified
  • 27:04in our formative study was
  • 27:06the people who are making the decision about menu
  • 27:08were the people from finance department
  • 27:11because that had the direct implication on the cost.
  • 27:14And then NCD department, there was a nutritionist involved
  • 27:19and then our study research staff
  • 27:22and consumers were involved and we had, first,
  • 27:24we trained this, we made this kind of team
  • 27:27and then we trained them on what
  • 27:29to make a common understanding of healthy diet,
  • 27:32what are we talking about when we are saying healthy diet?
  • 27:35So there was a lot of differences
  • 27:38in that perception as well.
  • 27:39So we had to get a common understanding on that.
  • 27:42And then we made implementation
  • 27:44and monitoring plan in collaboration with this team.
  • 27:49And then we did three rounds of training
  • 27:53with the cafeteria staffs, specifically shifts.
  • 27:57And then this training would be more interactive,
  • 28:01like interactive conversations
  • 28:04between our research staff and the canteen staff.
  • 28:08And then we focused on healthy eating plate
  • 28:11and then healthy cooking.
  • 28:16And so adding vegetables and fruits wherever possible,
  • 28:19just add fruits and vegetables.
  • 28:20So fruits was not at all available in the canteen
  • 28:23when we started this intervention.
  • 28:25And whole grain was not at all available,
  • 28:27not a single option of whole grains,
  • 28:30and/or using oil, oil was used very evidently,
  • 28:33so we focused on these three things.
  • 28:36And then we did our workshops to determine like what we add
  • 28:43and what we remove from the existing cafeteria.
  • 28:45So we decided to add like fruits, banana
  • 28:50and apple was chosen
  • 28:51because there was no system for refrigeration.
  • 28:54And then these two are like banana would be consumed
  • 28:56on the same day, apple could be stored for a long time.
  • 28:59And then we added whole grains like oats, buckwheat,
  • 29:01whole wheat, roti and then drinks,
  • 29:03water was made available free and whole and vegetables.
  • 29:08So we added salad like cucumber and radish
  • 29:11are very considered, so Nepal salad means cucumber
  • 29:16and radish, it's not like greens like here.
  • 29:20So every meal they would offer either cucumber
  • 29:24or radish on site.
  • 29:26And we introduced popcorn and then for the snack,
  • 29:32we introduced fruits and again water.
  • 29:37And we removed all white bread, puff,
  • 29:42puff is like a croissant and donut,
  • 29:45and then biscuits, cake.
  • 29:48And then we also altered rice.
  • 29:52So we mixed white rice with brown rice
  • 29:54and then we completely got rid of white bread
  • 29:57and then all the sugar-sweetened beverages
  • 30:00were completely off.
  • 30:01So they were not available even if on demands.
  • 30:12And then we did a kickoff event where,
  • 30:14so we made a big fuss of it, we had a kiosk desk
  • 30:18and then we were talking like all the research staff
  • 30:22were talking to the consumers who were dropping
  • 30:24in the canteen, discussing about these changes
  • 30:26like how they felt, like why we are doing the changes.
  • 30:29We made like big posters in the cafeteria
  • 30:32and then why should we,
  • 30:35just basically justifying these interventions.
  • 30:38And then we did a weekly observation checklist
  • 30:42and monthly CIT meetings.
  • 30:43So we would, one of the research staff
  • 30:46and one of the CIT team members would go visit
  • 30:49all of this cafeteria every week
  • 30:51and then see whether it was sustained or not.
  • 30:57And these are some pictures that were some modifications.
  • 31:02So this is like we added oats for breakfast
  • 31:05and then we added this fresh water.
  • 31:09We wanted to make it look beautiful
  • 31:11because we were getting rid
  • 31:13of all of the sugar-sweetened beverages.
  • 31:15And then because there was a lot of pushback
  • 31:18for two things, specifically two things.
  • 31:20One was the sugar-sweetened beverages.
  • 31:22And the second was white rice,
  • 31:25mixing white rice and brown rice.
  • 31:26So a lot of people who are angry for,
  • 31:29because they are so used to eating 100% white rice,
  • 31:32so then we had to add 100% white rice,
  • 31:35but it was not available on the counter,
  • 31:40it was available like behind the scene.
  • 31:42It was not visible.
  • 31:43So only those who really, really wanted would
  • 31:45like ask for the brown rice
  • 31:46and would get like 100% white rice and would get it.
  • 31:51And then the individual level intervention
  • 31:53had 16 core courses like goal setting, stress management,
  • 31:57healthy eating and mostly they had four themes.
  • 32:02So one was healthy eating, promoting healthy eating,
  • 32:04physical activity and demoting alcohol, tobacco and stress.
  • 32:12And so this is the current status of the data.
  • 32:23This is the current status.
  • 32:25Actually we have completed
  • 32:26the behavior intervention as well.
  • 32:28Behavior intervention was randomized,
  • 32:31so everybody received cafeteria intervention.
  • 32:33So all four cafeteria received intervention
  • 32:36and then we measured the outcomes before
  • 32:40and after the cafeteria intervention.
  • 32:42And we also wanted to do,
  • 32:44to compare it with control-timing.
  • 32:47So we did a six month gap.
  • 32:49So we measured the outcomes and then we measured it
  • 32:54after six months without any intervention.
  • 32:56And then six months after the cafeteria intervention.
  • 33:06So this is the baseline characteristics of the participants.
  • 33:10Most of like mean age was 32 years,
  • 33:14most of them were like our ethnic groups.
  • 33:17So that whole town is more predominantly this ethnic group.
  • 33:20I'm also from this ethnic group
  • 33:23and most of them were married, 69%,
  • 33:28like 89% were Hindu religion,
  • 33:31they identified themself as Hindus.
  • 33:35And they had like high school
  • 33:38or more education, more than 76%
  • 33:43because this is the hospital setting,
  • 33:45a lot of them are nurses and doctors, and paramedics.
  • 33:53So after the cafeteria intervention,
  • 33:55this is what we found for the health outcomes.
  • 34:02So systolic blood pressure decreased by 5mm,
  • 34:07just after only screening without even cafeteria
  • 34:11and more after the cafeteria intervention.
  • 34:15So it was at statistically significant.
  • 34:17We saw a statistical significant difference
  • 34:20in systolic blood pressure, diastolic blood pressure
  • 34:23and fasting blood sugar.
  • 34:27So the fasting blood sugar is little bit weird
  • 34:30because in the cafeteria intervention
  • 34:32we saw a little bit increase in fasting blood sugar
  • 34:36and then there was a decrease in low density lipoprotein
  • 34:41and others there was not a significant difference
  • 34:44in other outcomes.
  • 34:48So this is interesting.
  • 34:49So when we look at the whole grains at baseline,
  • 34:52they were only eating like 0.87 servings per week.
  • 34:56At six months, it changed to 0.51 servings per weeks.
  • 35:00And then after the cafeteria intervention
  • 35:02it was 4.22 servings per week.
  • 35:05So it has a, considering that they eat only one meal
  • 35:08in the cafeteria, one or two.
  • 35:12And the decrease in refined grains
  • 35:14are like amazing like about 20, there is 22.8 servings.
  • 35:18Like we eat a lot of refined grains, 22.8 servings
  • 35:22of refined grains per week
  • 35:26and then it decreased to 21.2 servings
  • 35:29of refined grains per week.
  • 35:31There was increase in consumption of fruits and nuts.
  • 35:38And then there was a decrease,
  • 35:40a little bit of decrease in consumption
  • 35:42of sugar-sweetened beverages,
  • 35:43but it was not that statistically significant.
  • 35:45So people were still drinking it outside of the hospital.
  • 35:52So this is like basically our experience
  • 35:55in like how we develop, contextualized this intervention
  • 36:01and what had its effect on change in diet.
  • 36:04Like it definitely had significant contribution
  • 36:07in change in quality of diet
  • 36:09and then few of the health outcomes as well.
  • 36:15<v Donna>I just have a quick,</v>
  • 36:16did you collect data on how much of it was all outside
  • 36:20of the hospital setting
  • 36:21and outside of their work setting?
  • 36:22<v ->Yeah, we do have that.</v> <v ->Whereas, changes made</v>
  • 36:24in the home like shipped in the kind of rice that they had
  • 36:27and other kinds of- <v ->So the total sales</v>
  • 36:29in the cafeteria had not changed.
  • 36:31So there was not a very significant drop.
  • 36:34And that we also asked individually if they had,
  • 36:38how many times did they eat in the cafeteria?
  • 36:41But unfortunately, we didn't ask that in the baseline.
  • 36:45But then the overall
  • 36:46like the food sales when we analyzed the food sales
  • 36:50had not changed in the cafeteria.
  • 36:52So there was no not much drop.
  • 36:56<v ->Well, I think Mayer was asking,</v>
  • 36:58did they change their eating patterns
  • 37:00at home? <v ->Home, oh we didn't...</v>
  • 37:01Oh, sorry, we didn't ask that.
  • 37:03We didn't ask that.
  • 37:05That's a very interesting, though.
  • 37:08So now we have extended this program to schools.
  • 37:11We have enrolled 22 schools
  • 37:13that I have not included in this presentation
  • 37:15and then conducted a randomized control trial among
  • 37:18with this behavior intervention.
  • 37:21We couldn't do the cafeteria intervention,
  • 37:23although it was on the plan because all schools were closed
  • 37:26for the past like one and a half years.
  • 37:29It's still closed in Nepal,
  • 37:31but as soon as it opens we will go
  • 37:34for the cafeteria intervention in this school as well.
  • 37:37So next is to evaluate the package
  • 37:41of essential non-communicable.
  • 37:42I will go a little bit quickly-
  • 37:44<v Donna>(faintly speaking) we have about 15 minutes.</v>
  • 37:49<v ->Yeah, so I'll just give up-</v>
  • 37:52<v Donna>Not that we want you to rush.</v>
  • 37:53<v ->Yeah, we don't have that, so it's just a status.</v>
  • 37:59So as I explained before the WHO proposed
  • 38:02this cost-effective program,
  • 38:04it's called package efficiency of non-communicable diseases.
  • 38:06A lot of LMIC adopted it,
  • 38:08it got very famous in Bhutan as well.
  • 38:12And then Nepal also adopted this and this intervention,
  • 38:16it aims for early detection and modification of risk factors
  • 38:19and avoidable medications for prevention
  • 38:22and treatment of four major NCD, CVD cancer
  • 38:26in Nepal we focus on two cancers, breast cancer
  • 38:28and cervical cancer,
  • 38:30chronic respiratory diseases and diabetes.
  • 38:32And PEN also aims to reinforce health system
  • 38:35and integrated NCD care into the primary healthcare.
  • 38:38Right now, what's happening is NCD care
  • 38:41is very more delivered by the private sector.
  • 38:44It's not integrated into the public sector
  • 38:46and not much was available in primary healthcare
  • 38:50before this program.
  • 38:51And the government endorsed it in the 16
  • 38:55out of 77 districts in 2016
  • 38:57and expanded to 33 district in 2019,
  • 39:01and the program is still in expansion.
  • 39:04So different versions of PEN is available,
  • 39:07so this is for Nepal.
  • 39:10Prevention of heart attacks, stroke and kidney diseases
  • 39:13and focusing on heart attack, stroke,
  • 39:14rheumatic heart disease, diabetes
  • 39:17and chronic respiratory diseases,
  • 39:20management of asthma and chronic respiratory diseases,
  • 39:23and assessment and early diagnosis of cancer.
  • 39:28And it only focuses on breast cancer
  • 39:30and cervical cancer in Nepal.
  • 39:34And then our goal was to measure
  • 39:37these implementation outcomes.
  • 39:38So we were measuring acceptability, adoption,
  • 39:41appropriateness, cost, feasibility, fidelity
  • 39:43and penetration, and sustainability.
  • 39:47And so these, I just wanted to give this example
  • 39:52of how we are measuring it and then we compare it
  • 39:55with the other project that we are doing.
  • 39:57So for the PEN we are mostly doing at the provider level
  • 40:00and health facility level.
  • 40:01For the other study,
  • 40:02we're doing at the individual client level as well.
  • 40:05So like satisfaction of the program itself
  • 40:08and what percent of the health workers
  • 40:11actually completed the training
  • 40:13and what percent of health volunteers
  • 40:15were completed the orientation
  • 40:17and what percent of the PEN,
  • 40:20the clinic did set up the program.
  • 40:26And for the feasibility we were seeing
  • 40:28what percent of the eligible clients were screened
  • 40:31and what percent of the eligible clients were treated
  • 40:34and what percent of the eligible clients were referred.
  • 40:37And for the feasibility, we observed health workers,
  • 40:41whether or not they were following the protocol
  • 40:46on the prevention of heart attack, stroke and kidney disease
  • 40:49and health education and management
  • 40:51of chronic obstructive diseases and assessment of cancer.
  • 40:56And then for the penetration,
  • 40:58we are estimating the percent
  • 41:00of active pain clinics in the past a year.
  • 41:04And for the implementation cost,
  • 41:06we are estimating the capital cost
  • 41:08and then as well as indeed cost from the perspective
  • 41:11of health facility and for the sustainability also,
  • 41:14we will be estimating the annual facility level cost
  • 41:20and reporting system.
  • 41:23And the project right now, we had a target
  • 41:27to do the quantitative assessment of facilities, 106
  • 41:32and then we have achieved that.
  • 41:33We're doing the qualitative interviews
  • 41:35and data analysis is in process.
  • 41:38This is one of the typical health center in western Nepal.
  • 41:42So just to give you like a glimpse
  • 41:44of what we are actually talking about.
  • 41:47And this is like inside the health centers
  • 41:49where we are doing the facility.
  • 41:51So it's nothing close to any smallest clinic
  • 41:55that you would go to in the US,
  • 41:58but it's a very typical in context of Nepal and other NMIC.
  • 42:03So the third is cervical cancer.
  • 42:05Again it was investigator initiated intervention
  • 42:09and then we wanted to collect data
  • 42:12for government to scale it up.
  • 42:14So more in like international guidelines are advocating
  • 42:18for HPV testing, which is considered highly sensitive
  • 42:22and accurate and women also prefer
  • 42:24the self-sample collection,
  • 42:26avoiding the speculum examination in Nepal.
  • 42:29So there has been already conducted a study in Nepal
  • 42:31that women prefer self-sample collection
  • 42:34and that also did in better screening
  • 42:37and covers in context of Nepal.
  • 42:39So again, we are estimating the same implementation metrics,
  • 42:44but in context to the previous study,
  • 42:46we are doing it at in client level and provider's level.
  • 42:50For at the client level, we will measure satisfaction
  • 42:53and partner support.
  • 42:54At the provider's level, we will measure the adoption,
  • 42:58we measure the feasibility at the provider's level
  • 43:00where in the previous study we were doing it
  • 43:02at the health facility level
  • 43:04and then we are measuring the fidelity
  • 43:06at the client's level, whether or not they are following
  • 43:08the protocol for self-sample collection
  • 43:11and home care adherence for post-treatment
  • 43:15and cost for health facility level,
  • 43:17if we are replicating this program,
  • 43:19what would be the cost that or health facility
  • 43:22I will have to incur and sustainability
  • 43:24like what would be the annual cost to sustain this program
  • 43:28and what can be the reporting system
  • 43:32within the government health system?
  • 43:36So we have target to enroll 1500
  • 43:40and then we have completed enrolling 926
  • 43:43self-sample collection has done for 226 women
  • 43:47and we are starting HPV testing this week.
  • 43:50So we really, really excited, we had a meeting this morning
  • 43:53about it and then we will conduct
  • 43:55a follow up survey as well.
  • 43:58And this is the setting that that's,
  • 44:01this is a like, just to give a glimpse of the setting
  • 44:04where we are working.
  • 44:05So these are the women in this municipality
  • 44:10and our health staff visit them and they give them
  • 44:14like instruction, they're reading the instruction
  • 44:16how to collect the self-samples.
  • 44:18So the volunteers, we have network of like 34 volunteers
  • 44:23in that municipality as well.
  • 44:24So we ask them, they facilitate to bring women
  • 44:27in one courtyard we're doing in the open spaces
  • 44:31and then they get the sample collection kit
  • 44:34and then they collect the sample
  • 44:36and give back to our research staff.
  • 44:39And then our research staff is like answering
  • 44:41if they have any questions
  • 44:42and then showing this little pamphlet
  • 44:45about the self-sample collection.
  • 44:50So quickly, I'm not taking much time now.
  • 44:54And then we do have a lot of challenges
  • 44:56to particularly in research,
  • 45:01but I'm not getting into that
  • 45:02like we have limited resources.
  • 45:04We have like geographical challenges,
  • 45:05Nepal's mountainous country, like lack of human resources,
  • 45:08everything, all of that is there.
  • 45:10But today, really wanna focus on
  • 45:11like implementation research challenges.
  • 45:14So first is stakeholder-related
  • 45:17and it's of utmost importance
  • 45:19to engage stakeholders in every process.
  • 45:23And it's like a lot of time that we really need
  • 45:27as an implementation science researchers,
  • 45:29we really need to allocate that time
  • 45:33to engage with stakeholders
  • 45:34and we have to do it in multiple setting.
  • 45:36It's not like one meeting
  • 45:37and then you give information, you collect feedback.
  • 45:42It doesn't work in case of implementation science research,
  • 45:46for example, we spent whole one year
  • 45:49just doing formative study to develop that intervention
  • 45:52and even for the PEN study, we had to collaborate
  • 45:57with the Ministry of Health,
  • 45:59Epidemiologic Disease Control Division
  • 46:01and there was a lot of discussion ongoing.
  • 46:03We made a lot of changes in the design
  • 46:08and we initially planned to do it only 16 districts,
  • 46:12but then because because of their demand,
  • 46:13we added that we did it in all seven provinces
  • 46:18and 32 districts.
  • 46:19So there was a lot of changes in design,
  • 46:21in positive way and it took a lot of time
  • 46:24and it was a little bit complex
  • 46:25because everybody comes with their own agenda
  • 46:27and then call to like to really,
  • 46:30get the buy-in of all of these people from different setting
  • 46:35and bring them into one focus,
  • 46:38into one objective has been a challenging,
  • 46:41but a very good lesson for me overall.
  • 46:45And research has been viewed as like a short-term project,
  • 46:49within implementers as well as the evaluators.
  • 46:51So when we approach any stakeholders, like they were saying,
  • 46:55okay, you collect data for three months
  • 46:56and then you go, so nobody is thinking about
  • 46:59like long-term engagement, long-term partnerships.
  • 47:02And it took some time to like really make them understand
  • 47:06and convince that this is not a one-time event
  • 47:09or even like few times event.
  • 47:12And there has been challenging in health system,
  • 47:16for example, there has been external factors
  • 47:18and then we had to keep changing the study designs.
  • 47:20It's not like a randomized control trial protocol.
  • 47:22You just come with a protocol and do it,
  • 47:26though, it didn't work like that.
  • 47:28So for example, when we were doing the PEN survey,
  • 47:33suddenly the COVID hit us
  • 47:34and then we had to change the strategy
  • 47:36and then there was this big flooding,
  • 47:38and then we had to change the health facilities,
  • 47:42the selected group that we selected randomly,
  • 47:45but we had to exchange it to different
  • 47:47because roads were all blocked.
  • 47:49And then there was this government,
  • 47:54they really after they knew that we are doing this study,
  • 47:56they chipped in, they also added some funding.
  • 48:00Nepal health research council got into
  • 48:03as an official partner of this study
  • 48:05and they wanted to do it faster.
  • 48:07So we had to really like add on like human resource
  • 48:13that they paid for.
  • 48:14So we had like eight resource assistants that were hired.
  • 48:17And what they really wanted to,
  • 48:19because they want to enroll it fast in the country,
  • 48:21they wanted the resource faster.
  • 48:23So they actually paid for eight more resource assistance
  • 48:26and then we had to like change
  • 48:27the whole field plan and everything.
  • 48:29So that's very expected.
  • 48:31And there is a strong bureaucracy in the health system
  • 48:34and that also caused some misunderstandings,
  • 48:38and some delays or there are a lot of transfers happening.
  • 48:41So we engaged with one stakeholder
  • 48:43and that person get transferred or something else,
  • 48:45a new person come in, so it introduces some delays.
  • 48:49And then there is a lack of evaluation plan
  • 48:52within the health program.
  • 48:53So for example, the PEN or HPV screening
  • 48:56within the government sector, they had this program,
  • 48:58but they did have any evaluation plans.
  • 49:01So we had to come, build completely new after the program
  • 49:06has been evaluated, has been like implemented.
  • 49:09So it has some limitations in terms of what kind of the data
  • 49:12that we need and what kind of data
  • 49:13that we collect at that point.
  • 49:17And then the routine healthcare data did not,
  • 49:19was very incomplete and then more often,
  • 49:22it may also be inaccurate.
  • 49:24So for even for the PEN, we wanted to see
  • 49:27what percent of the clients had been screened,
  • 49:29but there was no data available to do that.
  • 49:33And there was some issues with IRB.
  • 49:36IRB was, we had a really long discussions with IRB
  • 49:40because they didn't understand
  • 49:41implementation science research.
  • 49:43In Nepal it's very, very common for IRB
  • 49:47to also give scientific feedback.
  • 49:49So they would say why this many women
  • 49:51that you are recruiting, like why this many things,
  • 49:53why is not there is a control group for the HPV care.
  • 49:56And then we have to do a lot of back and forth
  • 50:00with the IRB and it took quite some time.
  • 50:07And then there was researcher-related,
  • 50:09the people we were hiring in the Nepal
  • 50:12didn't have any background
  • 50:13on implementation science research.
  • 50:15And then we had to like first train them,
  • 50:17they didn't have any experiences.
  • 50:19There was complete disconnect
  • 50:20between the implementing like government agencies
  • 50:22that were implementing the program
  • 50:24and the evaluating bodies that was university-wide
  • 50:27to create these new linkages before we initiate the program.
  • 50:32And then there was this very weird challenge
  • 50:36that we did not have same understanding
  • 50:40of implementation science research
  • 50:42even among the implementation researchers.
  • 50:44So like there was like big pushback
  • 50:46to use any kind of framework, which is we,
  • 50:49as an academician find very rare
  • 50:52because we think that, okay, implementation science
  • 50:55here is a framework
  • 50:57and we give so much emphasis to the framework.
  • 50:59And then there was this group of people
  • 51:00who were implementation scientists
  • 51:04and then they were saying frameworks
  • 51:05are just for academic exercise, we don't use framework.
  • 51:09Like, and then we had to like had two hours conversation
  • 51:12like why we wanna use framework
  • 51:14and like they were debating why
  • 51:16we don't want to use frameworks.
  • 51:17So anyway, so those were I think, were explored on the way.
  • 51:24So there were some opportunities as well.
  • 51:26I think, for me, number one reason
  • 51:29for pursuing the implementation science is
  • 51:31it has a potential to make a huge impact on public health.
  • 51:34There are lots of promising research areas.
  • 51:37Nothing is really happening in the context
  • 51:39of implementation science research, so we can do a lot.
  • 51:43And there is a like real need
  • 51:45to embed this implementation science within healthcare
  • 51:47because healthcare program are running on their own.
  • 51:50They are never evaluated.
  • 51:51Like nobody really knows what's really going on
  • 51:55because there is no activate proper data system
  • 51:58or analyze mechanism, or feedback system.
  • 52:01So I see them as this is a limitation
  • 52:07to do the study right now,
  • 52:08but I see them as a big opportunity for us.
  • 52:11And then we can have a really, really big leap
  • 52:13in this context of LMIC.
  • 52:18And so compared to 10 years ago,
  • 52:22even like when we were starting Donna in 2015,
  • 52:24there was not that much of resources on IS
  • 52:27and now we have all of these worldwide IS networkings
  • 52:31within the LMIC, I'm part of two of such networks
  • 52:35and there is a growing interest from funding agency,
  • 52:38NIH like National Cancer Institute
  • 52:40has this big interest in implementation science.
  • 52:44NHLBI is taking a lot of interest.
  • 52:46There is interest from Gates Foundation,
  • 52:48we got a smaller grant from Resolve to Care,
  • 52:50another organization and there is also a lot
  • 52:52of interest at the local level from WHO.
  • 52:55WHO also chipped in
  • 52:58in our PEN implementation evaluating program.
  • 53:03And there is also a big opportunity
  • 53:06in the program evaluation funding
  • 53:07from non-government organization if we want to explore that.
  • 53:12And there are also training opportunities available.
  • 53:15A lot of available,
  • 53:16a lot of free resources is available online.
  • 53:18And then in our master of science in public health course
  • 53:21we also offer two credit course on implementation science
  • 53:25that our student can take and other researchers
  • 53:28all over Nepal can also take that course.
  • 53:31So with that, I would really like to thank you all
  • 53:34for your time and really nice to be here.
  • 53:38This is one of the typical mountain village in Nepal.
  • 53:43<v Donna>Thanks so much.</v>
  • 53:48So I think Luke Davis has a question.
  • 53:51We don't really have a lot of time just one-
  • 53:53(speaker faintly speaking)
  • 53:56<v ->Okay, well, why don't we let Luke ask his question</v>
  • 53:58if Luke, if you're still...
  • 54:01Luke, if you're still here,
  • 54:02we'd love to have you ask your question
  • 54:05and then I think we probably have to wrap up.
  • 54:08<v ->Great, it's kind of a big question so-</v>
  • 54:11<v ->We can't hear you, oh there you go.</v>
  • 54:13<v ->I'll just share it and perhaps we'll have a chance</v>
  • 54:15to talk more when we meet on Friday
  • 54:17or when we meet in person Archana.
  • 54:19But I think the general question is
  • 54:21how do you collect implementation measures such as fidelity
  • 54:25in a real world setting without interrupting that setting?
  • 54:28I think that's the big question you gave,
  • 54:29I think some examples of the challenges,
  • 54:31but it'd be really fun to hear,
  • 54:33you know, if you just have one brief example
  • 54:35or how you've been able to do it
  • 54:37'cause you've obviously figured out how to do it
  • 54:40for lots of different conditions.
  • 54:41So thanks so much for the talk.
  • 54:43<v ->Yeah, thank you.</v>
  • 54:44Thank you Luke, really nice question.
  • 54:47We struggled a lot to do, to collect the fidelity
  • 54:50of our PEN protocol implementation.
  • 54:52And then we discussed a lot among ourselves
  • 54:56and with staff how we can do it.
  • 54:58So one of the things that we decided
  • 55:00before we get in the field, we decided that
  • 55:03we will just let the health workers know
  • 55:06that we are observing them and then assessing the fidelity,
  • 55:10but would not tell like which exact patient
  • 55:13and we will like observe them from a distance
  • 55:16and we would obviously get their consent.
  • 55:20So, and then we did that approach
  • 55:23and then when the feedback from the field work came up,
  • 55:27it was like in Nepal, they were so busy.
  • 55:31Like they didn't care about altering,
  • 55:34that was the general impression.
  • 55:36They were so busy, like they didn't care
  • 55:39about our assessment at all. (chuckles)
  • 55:41So it was good for us,
  • 55:45but it is good for the health system.
  • 55:49So one of the things that we did,
  • 55:51but yeah, of course, I think even after that
  • 55:56it would be a difficult, it's pretty challenging to do that.
  • 56:04<v ->Great, thanks.</v>
  • 56:06(Donna faintly speaking)
  • 56:09<v ->I think we probably need to conclude given the time,</v>
  • 56:13but I can see on the chat that many people are Archana
  • 56:16are writing to thank you for the talk
  • 56:18and note how, what an insightful
  • 56:21and excellent presentation it was.
  • 56:24And I know you'll be meeting with many of us
  • 56:26and you've met with many of us before
  • 56:28and as I mentioned, there's still opportunities
  • 56:31for people who have things they'd like to discuss
  • 56:34with Archana to connect with William and try to find a time.
  • 56:38So thank you all and have a good rest of your day.
  • 56:41<v ->Thank you.</v> <v ->Bye.</v>