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Climate Change and Health Seminar Series: “Climate change and health: Research to inform equitable policy”

June 26, 2023

Dr. Jaime Madrigano joined YCCCH to discuss her work on environmental justice, and policy actions to ensure equitable outcomes.

Speaker:

Dr. Jaime Madrigano; Associate Professor, Department of Environmental Health and Engineering, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

April 24, 2023

ID
10080

Transcript

  • 00:00<v Dr. Chen>Hi everyone thanks for coming.</v>
  • 00:01And this will be
  • 00:04our last seminar of this Spring semester (indistinct)
  • 00:09in the house and I'm very pleased to introduce you
  • 00:14to our today's speaker, Dr. Jaime Madrigano.
  • 00:18Dr. Madrigano is currently associate professor
  • 00:22at Departments of house and engineering
  • 00:25at John Hopkins Bloomberg state.
  • 00:29Jaime has made her research focus is environmental
  • 00:33and social determinants of health,
  • 00:35improving climate change and all environmental
  • 00:39and the drilling part is abcess on the environmental justice
  • 00:44Jaime uses logical method to report policy
  • 00:47her research was informing the development
  • 00:52of the 2017 New York City meters
  • 00:55$106 million here adaptation,
  • 00:59which I talk a lot about in my own class.
  • 01:02So you'll see to see behind the core neighborhoods
  • 01:07New York City project,
  • 01:09she also serves on the USEBA board of counselors
  • 01:15and the International Society.
  • 01:20<v ->It sounds like they're having a hard time hearing you.</v>
  • 01:22<v ->Oh, if I'm going to wait,</v>
  • 01:25can you hear us now?
  • 01:28<v Mauro>That's better, Kai thank you.</v>
  • 01:29<v ->Okay then maybe you need to stay here.</v>
  • 01:32<v ->Okay that's okay.</v>
  • 01:33<v ->So without further ado,</v>
  • 01:36lets welcome Dr. J Madrigano.
  • 01:42<v ->Thank you so much Dr. Chen</v>
  • 01:44and it's really great to be here.
  • 01:48I really appreciate the invitation.
  • 01:50It's been a wonderful morning so far,
  • 01:52meeting some faculty and trainees and I really appreciate
  • 01:56having the chance to talk a little bit about my work.
  • 01:59So as Dr. Chen said, I'm Jaime Madrigano,
  • 02:03I'm currently at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg
  • 02:05School of Public Health.
  • 02:07And there I'm in the Department of Environmental Health
  • 02:09and Engineering.
  • 02:10And I also lead the environmental challenges focused area of
  • 02:14the Bloomberg American Health Initiative,
  • 02:15which is really working to integrate our research practice
  • 02:20policy and education at the school and in kind of five
  • 02:25leading health areas that are that, that America is facing.
  • 02:30So today I'm gonna talk about my work
  • 02:33in climate change and health,
  • 02:35how some of this work has been used to inform policy
  • 02:39and just a couple of points broadly about how I think we can
  • 02:43think about climate and health research
  • 02:45being used to inform policy.
  • 02:49Okay so please feel free online,
  • 02:54I'm trying to stand close to the computer
  • 02:56so that you can hear me well.
  • 02:57But just let us know if there's any issues that come up.
  • 03:06Okay.
  • 03:07So I often like to start out my lectures
  • 03:11with this motivating slide.
  • 03:13And I realized when I was looking at it this morning,
  • 03:15it's actually quite dated.
  • 03:18So it makes me feel kind of old,
  • 03:20but I actually think it is still very relevant
  • 03:24and still very valid that climate change is the biggest
  • 03:28global health threat of this century.
  • 03:30And I strongly believe that and you know,
  • 03:32we certainly have been facing many global health threats,
  • 03:36but I think the thing about climate change is it really
  • 03:38spans across all kinds of disease outcomes.
  • 03:41So, you know,
  • 03:42we really have been dealing with the COVID pandemic
  • 03:46and infectious disease,
  • 03:48but we know that climate change is changing
  • 03:51the spread of vectors and changing the prevalence
  • 03:54of infectious diseases around the world.
  • 03:57But not just that we know that climate change is impacting
  • 04:00chronic diseases in the elderly.
  • 04:02We're seeing pediatric populations dealing with the brunt of
  • 04:06climate change in ways we've never seen before.
  • 04:09So I'm sure you've had a lot of great discussions in this
  • 04:12seminar about all the broad range of health effects of
  • 04:16climate change.
  • 04:17I'm not gonna bill to cover that all today,
  • 04:19but I'm gonna specifically talk about some of my work
  • 04:23related to heat and health impacts of heat
  • 04:25and then environmental health disparities related to heat.
  • 04:30So speaking of heat as an epidemiologist,
  • 04:34I generally look at historical heat waves
  • 04:37and occurrences of temperature fluctuations
  • 04:40and compare those to health outcomes
  • 04:43and see associations between those weather phenomena
  • 04:47and adverse health consequences.
  • 04:49But what does that mean really for climate change
  • 04:52and thinking ahead and into the future?
  • 04:54Well we know that these weather phenomena,
  • 04:58they have been changing over the last several decades.
  • 05:01So this is data from the US Global Change Research Program
  • 05:05and this shows that over the last six decades
  • 05:08we've seen a very consistent increase.
  • 05:12This is data from 40 large cities within the US
  • 05:14of kind of characteristics of the heat season.
  • 05:18So we've seen that the average number of heat waves
  • 05:21have gone from about two on average per year
  • 05:25to about six or more per year.
  • 05:29And the same kind of pattern with the length
  • 05:31of the heat season.
  • 05:31We're seeing just a longer duration
  • 05:34of when we might have these very extreme heat events.
  • 05:38And so what we we know is that those patterns are continuing
  • 05:42to get to worsen and when we can look at historical data
  • 05:45and see the adverse health consequences
  • 05:47associated with extreme heat events,
  • 05:49then we can kind of project into the future
  • 05:51about what we might continue to expect
  • 05:53as these weather phenomenon patterns continue to change.
  • 05:59We're really already seeing that the health impacts,
  • 06:05particularly mortality,
  • 06:06which has been studied a lot that are associated with these
  • 06:10extreme heat events, they've already been,
  • 06:12IM impacted by climate change.
  • 06:13And this is a referenced from the multi-country,
  • 06:18multi-city collaborative research network.
  • 06:20I think Dr. Chen is involved in that.
  • 06:22Some other faculty at Yale.
  • 06:24And I just thought this,
  • 06:25I don't know if you actually were involved in this paper,
  • 06:27but this is a really nice paper that came out a year or two
  • 06:30ago and again, it's not one of my studies,
  • 06:34but I like to show this
  • 06:35because I think it was a great paper.
  • 06:37One of the first to really show attribution.
  • 06:40So what was shown in this paper is they looked at,
  • 06:46I think about the last three decades of changes in
  • 06:50temperature and kind of disentangled what the temperature
  • 06:54would've been had we not been undergoing climate change
  • 06:57and what the temperature really was
  • 07:00according to the historical record.
  • 07:02That's the difference between those red and orange lines,
  • 07:04you can see there.
  • 07:05And then they were able to kind of parse out
  • 07:08how much of the deaths that we see
  • 07:10during these heat wave events over the last few decades
  • 07:13in many countries around the world.
  • 07:15You can see the map where data were pulled from,
  • 07:18how much of those were due to that differential,
  • 07:23to that temperature change that is associated with an
  • 07:26anthropogenic climate change.
  • 07:28And they showed that there were about 37% of the deaths in
  • 07:33the warm season were attributable
  • 07:35to that anthropogenic climate change.
  • 07:37So the point I just wanted to make with this slide
  • 07:41is to say that this isn't just a future problem,
  • 07:43this is a problem that is impacting us has been for decades,
  • 07:47people die every year from extreme heat and this is already
  • 07:50worsened because of climate change.
  • 07:52And you know, without kind of mitigation and adaptation,
  • 07:57we expect that to continue to worsen.
  • 08:01Okay, so now that everyone may be depressed,
  • 08:04what can we do about it?
  • 08:06So we know that, you know,
  • 08:09as I've shown plenty of other studies have shown heat waves
  • 08:12are deadly.
  • 08:13But there are some things that we can try to do to mitigate
  • 08:17those health impacts.
  • 08:18So there are heat warning systems.
  • 08:20Many communities implement these to put into place a wide
  • 08:24variety of measures.
  • 08:26Now the studies that have looked at these in a rigorous way
  • 08:30have really shown mixed, mixed results.
  • 08:33We don't know really if these are really effective in saving
  • 08:36lives during heat waves.
  • 08:38There's been kind of mixed data in some locations it seems
  • 08:41they have been effective and others they haven't been.
  • 08:44And there's, there's discussion around this discuss like,
  • 08:47why limelight did that be the case?
  • 08:49Well one reason is implementation after heat warnings
  • 08:52is very different from community to community.
  • 08:54What's actually done?
  • 08:56But another question is,
  • 08:57is the temperature threshold that triggers that warning,
  • 09:01is it really appropriate to that local community?
  • 09:03Sometimes it's based on a regional forecast.
  • 09:06And so in some places people have used the epidemiologic
  • 09:10data from that community.
  • 09:11So particularly in New York City they did this
  • 09:13where they actually changed the threshold
  • 09:16to trigger that warning based on epidemiologic study
  • 09:20and they showed that that did help
  • 09:22to prevent hospitalization after that change was made.
  • 09:26So that's something we can do in terms of public health
  • 09:29research where we can try and use local contextual data to
  • 09:33better understand what are appropriate thresholds
  • 09:35to trigger warnings.
  • 09:37We can also think about urban form.
  • 09:40Where should we implement more green space
  • 09:42or think about reflective groups to maybe lessen
  • 09:44that urban heat island.
  • 09:47But the question is where to target those?
  • 09:49You know, there's only a finite amount of money usually.
  • 09:51And so we wanna target those in the places that could most
  • 09:54benefit and seek to gain the most
  • 09:57health benefit in particular.
  • 09:59It might be in the parts of the city that are hottest,
  • 10:02but that might not be where people are living.
  • 10:05So we really need to know where people
  • 10:07are impacted the most.
  • 10:09And the same thing with other types of, you know,
  • 10:12social and financial supports.
  • 10:14We really wanna think about who can benefit most from these
  • 10:17types of programs and how we can get resources to those
  • 10:20populations and neighborhoods.
  • 10:24So that brings me to some of the work I wanted to talk about
  • 10:26that I've done in New York City.
  • 10:28And this was a study that I did quite a while ago,
  • 10:30but it really has informed a lot of work that I've done
  • 10:34since then and continue to do,
  • 10:36which I'll talk about a little bit after that.
  • 10:38But I wanted to set the stage with the study
  • 10:40and this was a study on heat vulnerability in New York City.
  • 10:46So when I started this work, what was noon already
  • 10:50I was collaborating with people at Columbia University as
  • 10:53well as the New York City Department of Health
  • 10:55and Mental Hygiene.
  • 10:56And with those collaborators at the New York City Department
  • 10:59of Health, they had already really looked at the burden
  • 11:02of heat on health in New York City.
  • 11:05And they had found that they really started to see severe
  • 11:08health impacts of heat so rises in mortality
  • 11:11when the heat index,
  • 11:14which is a combined temperature and humidity metric,
  • 11:17exceeded 95 degrees Fahrenheit over a couple of days.
  • 11:21So a prolonged period of that high heat index.
  • 11:24So they kind of knew where they wanted to start thinking
  • 11:27about that was their threshold
  • 11:28where they're seeing health impacts.
  • 11:31But what they didn't know was where specifically within
  • 11:34New York City, which is very large and diverse city,
  • 11:37should they be targeting resources
  • 11:39and what populations were most at risk.
  • 11:43That was where our collaboration came in
  • 11:45and we really wanted to again,
  • 11:47determine individual and neighborhood characteristics that
  • 11:50increased the likelihood of dying during a heat wave
  • 11:53and then use that epidemiologic data,
  • 11:56that health informed data to create a heat vulnerability
  • 11:59index for New York City.
  • 12:00And we felt that we could really make the strongest case for
  • 12:04policymakers to use that if we had the health data
  • 12:07to back up our recommendations.
  • 12:11So we did that with a case only study,
  • 12:15a case only design is a kind of a nice efficient way
  • 12:19to look at an effect modifier.
  • 12:21So if you've already understand the relationship between an
  • 12:25exposure and an outcome as I said,
  • 12:28this relationship between heat and mortality was already
  • 12:31pretty well characterized in this community,
  • 12:36but you really wanna look at some of those third variables
  • 12:38that might tighten that relationship.
  • 12:42You can use a case only design and really look at the
  • 12:45modification piece.
  • 12:47So we were able to do that with about over 200,000 deaths in
  • 12:52New York City over a period of just over 10 years
  • 12:56where we looked at all of the deaths
  • 12:57that occurred in the warm season
  • 13:00and we tried to understand what factors
  • 13:03were increasing vulnerability.
  • 13:05We defined heat waves as according to this definition that
  • 13:10was already established by the New York City Department
  • 13:12of Health times when the heat index heated 95 degrees
  • 13:16Fahrenheit for at least two days.
  • 13:20And then we tried to think about,
  • 13:21okay, how do we define vulnerability?
  • 13:24We like to think about three components of vulnerability,
  • 13:28what's increasing exposure?
  • 13:31This might be something in the neighborhood that maybe makes
  • 13:34the heat greater in one part of the city versus another.
  • 13:39What might make a person more sensitive,
  • 13:40maybe their their age or medications that they're on
  • 13:44and what could give a person adaptive capacity
  • 13:47so that they could withstand the heat.
  • 13:49And that gets into things like maybe financial resources
  • 13:52or other things.
  • 13:54The problem is of course we didn't have all the ideal data
  • 13:57that we wish we would in any study.
  • 14:00So we were working with death certificates.
  • 14:02So we would have to really,
  • 14:04we were just constrained by what we could understand
  • 14:06from the death certificate data.
  • 14:08So the things we were able to look at are individual factors
  • 14:11that I've listed here that are readily available
  • 14:14on the death certificate.
  • 14:16Then what was also available on the death certificate was
  • 14:18the person's census tract of residence.
  • 14:21And we could match that with other geospatial data sets to
  • 14:24look at, you know,
  • 14:25how much green space surrounds the person's...
  • 14:29Is in the person's neighborhood,
  • 14:30where in which they live using some satellite data
  • 14:33to understand how temperature varied across the city
  • 14:36and some other census data characteristics.
  • 14:39So we looked at all of these factors
  • 14:42and we found several factors came up as statistically
  • 14:47significant modifiers.
  • 14:49And so where we found that non-Hispanic black New Yorkers
  • 14:54were much more likely to die during heatwave days
  • 14:57versus non heatwave days
  • 14:59in that same warm period than any other race
  • 15:02or ethnic group.
  • 15:04We also found that people were more likely to die at home
  • 15:06than in hospitals or institutions.
  • 15:09This could potentially be a marker of social isolation,
  • 15:14although we weren't able to specifically measure that.
  • 15:17And then we found that people that died during heat wave
  • 15:22days versus non heatwave days over this warm period,
  • 15:25relatively more of them looped in neighborhoods
  • 15:29that were receiving more public assistance,
  • 15:31general marker of poverty and in parts of the city
  • 15:35that had less vegetation and consequently,
  • 15:37higher surface temperatures.
  • 15:40So we were able to look at all of those factors that were,
  • 15:44again from the epidemiologic analysis came out as
  • 15:48significant modifiers and characterized their distribution
  • 15:52across the city.
  • 15:53We looked at every census tract and the prevalence of these
  • 15:56factors and we created Z-score to combine those factors
  • 16:00into an index.
  • 16:04And then we mapped the index.
  • 16:06And so you can see on this map the red portions
  • 16:10indicate a higher index score.
  • 16:12Those are the areas that we found were the most heat
  • 16:16vulnerable where a lot of these factors tend to cluster.
  • 16:19And if you're familiar or not familiar
  • 16:22with the New York City,
  • 16:23those were in areas of upper Manhattan,
  • 16:25the Bronx and central Brooklyn.
  • 16:29And then of course,
  • 16:30it's not to say that deaths during heat waves are not
  • 16:34occurring in other areas,
  • 16:35but relatively there are less in other areas.
  • 16:38So we had that combined next just to see,
  • 16:42'cause we did a very simple,
  • 16:44we didn't really do a complicated weighting scheme.
  • 16:46We actually wanted purposely to keep it simple so that the
  • 16:49Department of Health could continue to update this index
  • 16:53and, and you know, make it sort of an evergreen tool.
  • 16:57So we just summed those factors to create the index,
  • 17:02but we found that this is the relative odds.
  • 17:05This graph on the left is the relative odds of dying during
  • 17:08heat wave by quintile of the index.
  • 17:10And we do see that it actually predicts pretty well with
  • 17:14each increasing quintile leading to an increase odds
  • 17:16of dying during a heat wave.
  • 17:19So this was a very useful tool
  • 17:22for the city health department
  • 17:23and I'll talk a little bit
  • 17:26about how this index was eventually used by the city,
  • 17:29but of course I do wanna mention some limitations
  • 17:32from this work and how it kinda got us thinking
  • 17:34about other aspects of things to look into.
  • 17:38The case only study is limited in that
  • 17:42you're really looking at one modifier at a time
  • 17:45and so many of these things are highly correlated.
  • 17:49So we really couldn't tease out what is the most important
  • 17:52risk factor, but that that wasn't really our goal
  • 17:55in this work we really wanted to identify areas
  • 17:58of most vulnerability.
  • 17:59But if you are interested in that,
  • 18:01this study design is limited in that way.
  • 18:05We didn't have in information on individual socioeconomic
  • 18:09position or measures. We used the a neighborhood measure,
  • 18:13but of course both of those really play an important role
  • 18:16in the ability to adapt to heat.
  • 18:18And we did not have that.
  • 18:21And of course like most big epidemiologic studies,
  • 18:24we used outdoor temperatures of proxy for personal exposure.
  • 18:28This can be a poor proxy in a lot of cases,
  • 18:31particularly when you're talking about having air
  • 18:34conditioning or not having air conditioning.
  • 18:37And so, you know,
  • 18:39when we think about the sort of relative different changes
  • 18:42day to day,
  • 18:43we still think it's useful but it's worth mentioning that
  • 18:46that is a limitation of this study.
  • 18:48And you know, correspondingly,
  • 18:50no information on the indoor residential environment.
  • 18:53So no information on air conditioning,
  • 18:55no other information on the home.
  • 18:57Again, pretty pretty par for the course
  • 18:59for a large epidemiologic study,
  • 19:01but left a lot of open questions for us.
  • 19:06The one thing we decided to do after that work was complete
  • 19:10was to try to understand some of those open questions
  • 19:13a little bit more.
  • 19:14And what we did is we conducted
  • 19:16a follow-up telephone survey.
  • 19:18So I'm not gonna get into all the details of this study,
  • 19:21but I'll just say that we ended up
  • 19:24doing telephone interviews.
  • 19:25It was a landline plus cell phones sample
  • 19:29and we did about over 700 interviews
  • 19:32conducted in English and Spanish of New Yorkers.
  • 19:35I think there were about 15 questions kind of ranging from
  • 19:39some information about characteristics of people's homes,
  • 19:41whether or not they had air conditioning,
  • 19:43whether they used it from some demographic information
  • 19:47and also some questions on what they did during heat waves.
  • 19:51If they hand staple at home,
  • 19:53what were their options, how did they protect themselves?
  • 19:56So you can always pull up the study
  • 20:00if you really wanna know a lot more about it.
  • 20:03But I'll just highlight a couple of the key findings
  • 20:05which were that we found that over a quarter of New Yorkers
  • 20:10did not have access to functioning air conditioning
  • 20:13or used it less than half the time
  • 20:16when they noted that it was very,
  • 20:18very hot outside.
  • 20:20So that's really telling us that, you know,
  • 20:23in general we think kinda air conditioning coverage
  • 20:27or penetrance is pretty high,
  • 20:29but there are a lot of people in vulnerable communities
  • 20:34who do either don't have access or are not running it.
  • 20:37And a lot of times, you know,
  • 20:38that may be due to financial constraints
  • 20:40for electricity bills.
  • 20:43We also found that non-Hispanic black respondents,
  • 20:47you know,
  • 20:48which was again a priority population
  • 20:49since we found they were dying much more during heat waves
  • 20:52than other groups in New York
  • 20:54were less likely to own air conditioning
  • 20:56even when adjusting for household income.
  • 20:59Now our household income measures are still somewhat prude,
  • 21:03but I think what this points to is that
  • 21:05there are other potentially systemic factors
  • 21:08that really need to be accounted for.
  • 21:12When we sort of do these epidemiologist studies,
  • 21:15a lot of the things we're measuring there are things that go
  • 21:17way beyond that.
  • 21:18So this may be related to certain types of housing
  • 21:21conditions that can't support air conditioning use
  • 21:25or other things that might just not,
  • 21:28not be solely due to the current household's income.
  • 21:31And we need to think about those, you know,
  • 21:33potentially systemic and structural factors that have played
  • 21:37a role in putting populations at a higher increased risk
  • 21:41for all kinds of climate events.
  • 21:44And then lastly,
  • 21:45we found that participants stay at home
  • 21:47even when they can't keep cool.
  • 21:49So when we asked the question about what do you do
  • 21:52when you can't keep cool at home during very hot weather,
  • 21:55I think it was either the top response
  • 21:57or maybe it was the second response was just stay home.
  • 22:00And this is, I don't know,
  • 22:04is it intuitive or counterintuitive?
  • 22:06What do people think?
  • 22:11<v ->I think it's counterintuitive</v>
  • 22:12'cause we would think people it's too hot
  • 22:15and go out to public library or (indistinct).
  • 22:21<v ->Yeah, I mean I think that's what a lot of us think</v>
  • 22:24when we're thinking about potential solutions, right?
  • 22:28We suggest operating cooling centers
  • 22:30and you know,
  • 22:32having people come to them.
  • 22:33But I think if you also think about it,
  • 22:36you can also see the perspective
  • 22:38that it could be intuitive as well
  • 22:40because do you really wanna leave your home
  • 22:44where you tend to be comfortable and just go
  • 22:48sit somewhere with strangers?
  • 22:50So it's, you know,
  • 22:51I think it's something to keep in mind in terms of
  • 22:55the solutions that we're implementing
  • 22:58because we need to think about how can we...
  • 23:02I think cooling centers are an important measure,
  • 23:04but also how can we keep people cool at home?
  • 23:08And in particular, I think we thought a lot about this
  • 23:12during the Coronavirus pandemic
  • 23:13and New York City was one of the places
  • 23:15that actually was able to get enough resources together
  • 23:19to provide air conditioning at home
  • 23:22and subsidize that for individuals
  • 23:24because it was dangerous to go home and...
  • 23:28Yeah?
  • 23:28<v Student>Is there any laws that (indistinct)</v>
  • 23:38That's actually, that's a good question.
  • 23:40So I don't, I mean I'm sure there are,
  • 23:44I mean maybe not in like public libraries,
  • 23:47which are often used, but I think,
  • 23:50I've heard sort of anecdotally that there are also concerns
  • 23:55in some communities about sort of going to government
  • 23:59sponsored places because of fears around other things,
  • 24:04immigration status or other other things.
  • 24:06So yeah, I think there's kind of like
  • 24:09a lot of broad implications that need to be kept in mind
  • 24:13in terms of putting this protective measure
  • 24:16in a public space.
  • 24:18Good question.
  • 24:19Yeah?
  • 24:21(indistinct)
  • 24:29No it wasn't.
  • 24:30So it was just a representative telephone survey
  • 24:34of New York City, so.
  • 24:36Oh, sorry, yeah,
  • 24:38yeah it was a random digit telephone survey.
  • 24:41So yeah, so I don't know if everyone heard that,
  • 24:43but the question was,
  • 24:45"Did this telephone survey sort of target a group residents
  • 24:50living in an HVI area and that wasn't something
  • 24:54we were able to do,
  • 24:55it was a random digit dial of all New Yorkers.
  • 25:01So, you know, so we potentially answered
  • 25:04some of our questions but probably
  • 25:06just ended up having more questions
  • 25:08and I guess maybe that's good for us as researchers
  • 25:11'cause we have more things to look at.
  • 25:13But, you know,
  • 25:14I think it's helpful to sometimes think about different ways
  • 25:18of study quantitative methods, survey methods,
  • 25:22qualitative methods to tackle different,
  • 25:25different pieces of this complex problem.
  • 25:29So I wanna talk a little bit about some of the impact that
  • 25:31this work had before I move on in the discussion.
  • 25:38So, you know, we were able...
  • 25:42I think the findings from the epidemiologic study
  • 25:46supported by this telephone survey
  • 25:49and because we're working very
  • 25:50collaboratively with the New York City Department of Health,
  • 25:53were able to be used right away,
  • 25:55which was a really nice, and this is...
  • 25:59So a couple of years after the study was published,
  • 26:02the New York City mayor implemented
  • 26:04a cool neighborhoods NYC program.
  • 26:06And this is, you know, what Kai was mentioning in the intro,
  • 26:10this was a very,
  • 26:12a lot of resources devoted to thinking about curbing the
  • 26:16effects of extreme heat in New York City.
  • 26:19And throughout the plan and through, you know,
  • 26:23this is some language from the press release,
  • 26:25you can see that the heat vulnerability index has mentioned
  • 26:28quite a lot.
  • 26:29And so I think, you know,
  • 26:31what was really nice is this study had a very like,
  • 26:35practical implication is that policymakers
  • 26:38could take the results,
  • 26:39look at a map pretty easily,
  • 26:41and use this to target resources in this plan.
  • 26:45So this part of the press release is talking about where
  • 26:49they were doing some street tree plantings
  • 26:51and cool roofs implementation,
  • 26:54and you can see pretty clearly
  • 26:55that they talk about the South Bronx,
  • 26:57Northern Manhattan and central Brooklyn.
  • 26:59Those were those red areas on the map
  • 27:01and they specifically mentioned
  • 27:03how the heat vulnerability index,
  • 27:05those areas are ranked high according to the city's
  • 27:07heat vulnerability index
  • 27:09and that's why the resources
  • 27:11are being targeted to those areas.
  • 27:14The city also implemented a pilot program called,
  • 27:17"Be a Buddy".
  • 27:19And this program was also piloted
  • 27:21in some of those high HVI neighborhoods.
  • 27:24And in this program,
  • 27:25this is specifically trying to get at those people
  • 27:28who won't leave their home.
  • 27:29This was a program to encourage neighbors
  • 27:31to check in on others during extreme heat events.
  • 27:36The city chooses to use the heat vulnerability index.
  • 27:39So in 2020 during the Coronavirus pandemic,
  • 27:43when again, we couldn't bring people to public spaces,
  • 27:46there were some other initiatives,
  • 27:47the cool streets initiative, and this was, you know,
  • 27:50where they were opening fire hydrants and spray caps
  • 27:53trying to create some mitigating effects of extreme heat in
  • 27:57the outdoor environment,.
  • 27:59And again, the city used the HVI
  • 28:02to kind of target those where those measures
  • 28:07should be collected.
  • 28:10So a couple of takeaways from this collective work
  • 28:15in terms of the findings, again,
  • 28:17I wanna highlight that our study,
  • 28:23like many, many other studies in the US
  • 28:25has showed that black New Yorkers were much more at risk
  • 28:29during heat wave events than other race ethnic groups.
  • 28:33We see that pretty consistently in studies of heat
  • 28:36and in studies of a lot of environmental stressors.
  • 28:39But, you know, our research team tried
  • 28:43to delve into that a little bit,
  • 28:45but we really felt like there were a lot of unmeasured
  • 28:47factors and this really points to kind of the potential for
  • 28:52systemic discrimination that has been, you know,
  • 28:54happening for years that may be at play here
  • 28:57and in a lot of this work.
  • 28:59And I'm gonna talk about some continuation
  • 29:01of this work next.
  • 29:03And I think that's an important thing to highlight.
  • 29:07We also really feel that there's a lot more to learn about
  • 29:11housing in the indoor environment.
  • 29:13And I think this is probably one of the major areas
  • 29:17of potential future research for people
  • 29:20that are interested in heat,
  • 29:21is really getting a better understanding
  • 29:24and characterization of where people spend the majority
  • 29:26of their time and the indoor environment
  • 29:28and the kind of the range of health impacts
  • 29:30that might be mitigated within that indoor environment.
  • 29:36And in terms of process,
  • 29:39we're really critical to work with stakeholders
  • 29:42from the beginning so that this research
  • 29:45could inform policy.
  • 29:46And that was really one of the things I was very fortunate
  • 29:49to work directly with the New York City Department of Health
  • 29:51because they were able to help define the question and help
  • 29:55and that made research able to be used.
  • 29:59And so in future work I continue or current in future work,
  • 30:03I continue to try to work with policymakers,
  • 30:07with grassroots organizers to try to incorporate
  • 30:09their ideas early on.
  • 30:11And I think that's something that's always useful
  • 30:13if you can find those connections
  • 30:15to make your research relevant.
  • 30:20And then also just the utility of maps.
  • 30:23It seems very simple, but I think the fact that we had
  • 30:26a nice easy to understand map really helped
  • 30:30our vulnerability index again, to be used.
  • 30:33It could tell a story right away to, you know,
  • 30:37somebody that doesn't know a thing about epidemiology,
  • 30:40but if it's very easy to it to look at a pretty map
  • 30:45and kind of understand it.
  • 30:46So I think, you know,
  • 30:48that again is kind of continue on
  • 30:50in that thread a little bit.
  • 30:53So I wanna talk a little bit about some work I've been doing
  • 30:57a little last couple of years,
  • 31:00That flowed outta that New York City work
  • 31:04to some extent and also just reflected a lot of other
  • 31:07current thinking at the time.
  • 31:09And this is some work that I was doing before I moved over
  • 31:13to Johns Hopkins.
  • 31:14About a year ago I was at a public policy research institute
  • 31:17called RAND. And so this is where I started there
  • 31:19with some collaborators,
  • 31:21myself and the other lead investigator Ben Preston.
  • 31:25And I'm continuing to work with my RAND collaborators
  • 31:29on some of this stuff.
  • 31:31And so this was kind of thinking about, you know,
  • 31:34we see environmental health studies of environmental health
  • 31:38and racial disparities over and over
  • 31:40kinda pointing to the same factors.
  • 31:43And in some ways it's very unsatisfying
  • 31:46to talk about things like certain race or ethnic groups
  • 31:51as being more vulnerable because this isn't an inherent,
  • 31:54this is a construct, right?
  • 31:55This isn't an inherent characteristic
  • 31:58that makes someone more more vulnerable.
  • 32:02There's a lot of systemic factors that have gone into this.
  • 32:05So what we wanted to do was kind of delve into a little bit
  • 32:09more of that systemic and structural factors that have led
  • 32:14to the environmental health disparities that we see today.
  • 32:19And so I will just briefly,
  • 32:22let's see, should I,
  • 32:30so I don't, so just for some,
  • 32:34some added context and background,
  • 32:36and I think, you know,
  • 32:38in the last few years the literature's
  • 32:39kinda exploded in this area.
  • 32:41So I probably don't need to give this background,
  • 32:43but I'll briefly say that one of the measures
  • 32:46that we started looking at as well as many other researchers
  • 32:49have been looking at is these historical maps
  • 32:53that have characterized a discriminatory practice
  • 32:57called redlining.
  • 32:58And this was a practice that happened in the US in the 1930s
  • 33:04that kind of basically codified discriminatory lending.
  • 33:08And this is a map of Baltimore where you could see that
  • 33:11areas in the center of the city were what we call redlined.
  • 33:14And those were areas that were marked as being pretty risky
  • 33:18for mortgage investment,
  • 33:20whereas other of the surrounding areas,
  • 33:22the kinda green and blue areas were areas that were deemed
  • 33:25not as risky.
  • 33:26So mortgage lending could, you know,
  • 33:27more freely happened now.
  • 33:29And the thought is that, you know,
  • 33:34where this occurred,
  • 33:36this sort of created both segregation and economic inequity
  • 33:41that has lasted for generations.
  • 33:44You know, creating real,
  • 33:46real wealth gaps in communities because of these
  • 33:50discriminatory practices that happened
  • 33:52about a hundred years ago, right?
  • 33:54Because people could not get mortgages,
  • 33:57they couldn't accumulate wealth over time,
  • 33:59they couldn't pass it on intergenerationally.
  • 34:01And I think the key thing
  • 34:04to think about there is some historical archives.
  • 34:07We can see the language that was used
  • 34:10to make some of these determinations.
  • 34:12Now it wasn't a hundred percent always based on race
  • 34:16or whether the residents were foreign born or not,
  • 34:19but in many, many cases it was very explicit
  • 34:24in terms of how they made these characterizations.
  • 34:26So I think, you know,
  • 34:27it's a pretty clear example of a discriminatory practice
  • 34:33that was pretty embedded throughout the US.
  • 34:36Now there's been also,
  • 34:38I do wanna mention discussion in the literature
  • 34:40as sort of whether this is,
  • 34:42you know, was it this redlining practice
  • 34:45and these maps or was it other types of discrimination
  • 34:49and segregation that was happening before that?
  • 34:51And this was sort of a result of that?
  • 34:53I think for our purposes is, you know,
  • 34:55a lot of epidemiologists and geographers
  • 34:58have become interested in this.
  • 35:00We know there were lots of discriminatory practices
  • 35:02happening at that time.
  • 35:04So I don't think we need to necessarily know
  • 35:06that this was the be all and end all,
  • 35:08but I think we can use this as a very good measure
  • 35:12of the things that were happening.
  • 35:13And so that's how many people have been using it.
  • 35:16And that's how we used it in study where we really again
  • 35:21wanted to think about how to change the dialogue,
  • 35:24one that focuses explicitly on race and racial disparities
  • 35:28to one that focuses on practices and policies and racism.
  • 35:34At the time when we started this study,
  • 35:36there was a little bit of work being done in this area.
  • 35:39As I said, it really has exploded over the last few years,
  • 35:43but there was a really nice paper by Jeremy Hoffman
  • 35:45and colleagues that looked at heat islands
  • 35:49across the US and how the spatial distribution of heat
  • 35:53really varied within cities and mapped those
  • 35:57pouring to these redlining maps
  • 35:59and showed very high correlations
  • 36:01between areas that were previously redlined
  • 36:03and those being the areas that still retain the most heat.
  • 36:07We kind of knew that this was the case,
  • 36:10not just with heat, right?
  • 36:11There's so many environmental aspects that we see
  • 36:14in these sort of,
  • 36:16that play a role in these environmental health disparities.
  • 36:19So goal of this project is really to kinda bring a lot more
  • 36:22data into the picture,
  • 36:24look at a broad range of environmental hazards
  • 36:27and see if we could make that data available
  • 36:30for people to use it and kind of look at
  • 36:32these associations more closely.
  • 36:35Other goal of this topic was to think about solutions
  • 36:38and what communities are currently doing to kind of mitigate
  • 36:42these long-term systemic problems.
  • 36:45So we did that by taking data from multiple sources.
  • 36:51So we took some of that temperature data,
  • 36:53but we also took data on air quality,
  • 36:55hazardous waste sites,
  • 36:56a lot of EPA data,
  • 36:59the redlining maps that were digitized
  • 37:02by the University of Richmond.
  • 37:03We wouldn't have been able to do this project without that,
  • 37:06as well as some land cover data.
  • 37:08We took all of that data for our quantitative piece.
  • 37:11The other thing we did was we worked and partnered
  • 37:14with a grassroots organization called Groundwork USA.
  • 37:18Groundwork USA is a network of trusts,
  • 37:21environmental justice organizations across the country
  • 37:24working specifically on kind of mitigating these issues of
  • 37:29environmental inequities and communities.
  • 37:32And we interviewed the groundwork trusts
  • 37:34and we interviewed the policymakers
  • 37:36that they're working with to find out
  • 37:38what are they doing now,
  • 37:40how are they trying to rectify this issue,
  • 37:42what are the barriers they faced?
  • 37:46So in terms of this study,
  • 37:48well the first thing we did was put a publicly available
  • 37:51tool together.
  • 37:53And I have a link here at the bottom of the slide.
  • 37:56The tool is finally published just about a year ago.
  • 38:01And I also wanna highlight that someone who has way better
  • 38:05coding skills than I do is a doctoral student,
  • 38:09a doctoral student at the party rating school,
  • 38:11Carlos Calvo Hernandez.
  • 38:13So he really was instrumental in building this tool.
  • 38:16But we have data on about 200 communities in the US
  • 38:20and we have two dropdown menus for this tool
  • 38:22where you can pick the community
  • 38:24and you can pick the environmental hazard
  • 38:26and then you can see maps comparing
  • 38:29those historical redlining maps
  • 38:31and as well as the distribution of all of these
  • 38:33environmental metrics and how they exist today.
  • 38:36And you'll see quite consistent patterns
  • 38:39across a range of cities
  • 38:41and across a range of environmental metrics.
  • 38:46And in general, just to show you some descriptive results
  • 38:49from that work,
  • 38:50we consistently see this is from data
  • 38:52from all of the communities.
  • 38:54So things like diesel particulate matter
  • 38:56are carcinogen much higher in previously redline areas
  • 39:00than in other parts of cities.
  • 39:03Counts of hazardous waste sites higher,
  • 39:05again, in those formerly redline areas.
  • 39:08When we talk specifically about climate related stressors,
  • 39:11others have shown this.
  • 39:13But we did look at tree canopy cover.
  • 39:15I again see that consistent pattern where areas that were
  • 39:18previously redlined have much less tree canopy
  • 39:21than other parts of the community.
  • 39:23We looked at gridded climate data,
  • 39:27so we were able to look at average minimum temperatures
  • 39:30over a summer season, mean temperature,
  • 39:32maximum temperature.
  • 39:34We know that minimum temperature can be important
  • 39:36in terms of health because that's the time
  • 39:38when the body can cool down in the evening
  • 39:41and we consistently see higher minimum
  • 39:44temperatures in those previously red line areas.
  • 39:47And another metric that I'm really excited about,
  • 39:50a paper that was published not too long ago,
  • 39:53by Remedia Et al.,
  • 39:55They put together a estimate of air conditioning
  • 39:58prevalence by census tract in many major cities in the US
  • 40:02And so this is,
  • 40:03we're working on this now
  • 40:04to get the paper ready for publication,
  • 40:06but I looked at the air conditioning prevalence by these
  • 40:10redlining measures and we can still see
  • 40:12while air conditioning prevalence doesn't vary a lot,
  • 40:15we can still see,
  • 40:16and it's statistically significant
  • 40:18in our regression modeling of it,
  • 40:20that there is a lower prevalence of air conditioning
  • 40:23in those previously redlined areas.
  • 40:27Now, in terms of what we learned from the interviews
  • 40:30with Groundwork USA,
  • 40:32there is a lot,
  • 40:33and I'm not gonna go through all of those results.
  • 40:36We published a paper last year on those interviews
  • 40:39and a lot of the policy solutions people are working on,
  • 40:42so if this is something you're interested in,
  • 40:45I encourage you to take a look at that.
  • 40:46But the response that we heard
  • 40:50from the trust over and over again
  • 40:52was something that I found really interesting
  • 40:55was that they themselves and their constituency
  • 40:59had a lot of concerns about greening solutions
  • 41:03and quotes from interviews,
  • 41:07and I'll let you read them yourself,
  • 41:08but generally these
  • 41:14were basically within the context
  • 41:15of people being concerned about displacement
  • 41:18or what some people are calling green gentrification.
  • 41:22So there are a lot of concerns about like,
  • 41:26are you putting trees in here for me
  • 41:28or for the person who's gonna buy up my land
  • 41:32and displace me?
  • 41:34And so this is something that Groundwork
  • 41:36has taken really seriously.
  • 41:37And one of the things that they told us that they're doing
  • 41:40to address this issue is to really think
  • 41:43holistically about solutions.
  • 41:45And that is when they're advocating for greening,
  • 41:47they're simultaneously advocating for housing protections.
  • 41:51And I think, you know,
  • 41:52with these types of issues,
  • 41:53we really need to think very holistically,
  • 41:56even as researchers when we're recommending solutions about
  • 41:59the potential unintended consequences.
  • 42:03So with that work we see of across a variety of hazards,
  • 42:08we see pretty consistent spatial patterns
  • 42:10that this systemic discriminatory practice,
  • 42:13whether it's redlining or other things that will hopefully
  • 42:16start to measure better soon,
  • 42:18as potential drivers for some of the environmental
  • 42:21inequities we see today,
  • 42:23even with some regional variation,
  • 42:25we still see that those relationships hold up
  • 42:29and it's really important to think about implementing
  • 42:32interventions that may avoid unintended consequences.
  • 42:36So thinking about holistic solutions are really,
  • 42:38again, an important piece
  • 42:39of how we're gonna move forward with this and progress.
  • 42:44So, you know,
  • 42:45this work has really gotten me thinking a lot
  • 42:48about how to better consider structural racism
  • 42:51within climate and health studies.
  • 42:53And I wanted to...
  • 42:54This work is very much in progress.
  • 42:56I wanted to just go highlight my doctoral student,
  • 42:58current doctoral student, Shifali Matthews,
  • 43:01because she's been really digging into thinking about,
  • 43:03she's using the case study of hurricanes
  • 43:06and trying to think about how can we do a better job
  • 43:09of looking at these systemic upstream factors.
  • 43:12And she's started off that work by doing a literature review
  • 43:17to look at, well,
  • 43:18how have we in the past considered vulnerability
  • 43:20to hurricanes?
  • 43:21And I know this graph
  • 43:23isn't in the best shape at this point,
  • 43:25it's very preliminary,
  • 43:26but what I can tell you is the bar all the way on the left
  • 43:29is a bar of demographic.
  • 43:32So that's by far and a way how we generally look at
  • 43:36vulnerability things like age,
  • 43:39race, and ethnic groups,
  • 43:40social economics, gender.
  • 43:43The second to the, you know,
  • 43:47or maybe the one, two, three, four,
  • 43:50fifth bar over is structural factors.
  • 43:53And I think we found maybe four or five studies that looked
  • 43:57at structural factors and sort of
  • 43:58upstream policy factors.
  • 44:01So you can really see the literature has not explored that
  • 44:05as much and Shifali's been thinking about this
  • 44:08you know, is working on recommendations for this paper.
  • 44:13So I wanna close out with just a mention
  • 44:15of really briefly two studies.
  • 44:16I know that when Dr. Chen first invited me here,
  • 44:19I think he was hoping that I would talk about one of these
  • 44:23and I was hoping that too,
  • 44:24but we've had some big delays in in these studies,
  • 44:27but, you know, maybe if I'm able to come back
  • 44:30in a year or two, maybe I can put on some findings
  • 44:34on some of this new work.
  • 44:35But we have two studies
  • 44:39that are really kicking off right now.
  • 44:41One is very much focused on heat
  • 44:44within the city of New Orleans.
  • 44:46And a lot of this is building off of the New York City work.
  • 44:51And really, again,
  • 44:52thinking about what is the right threshold
  • 44:54that we start to see hospitalizations.
  • 44:56We're working with Louisiana Department of Health
  • 44:59to look at more hospitalization data.
  • 45:01What are the neighborhood factors?
  • 45:03We know that there's a high proportion of the population
  • 45:08in New Orleans that is living in poverty.
  • 45:11And so it's a particularly heat vulnerable area.
  • 45:13And we have three things that we're doing study first,
  • 45:17again, sort of characterizing that burden
  • 45:19from a threshold perspective,
  • 45:21looking at vulnerability,
  • 45:22very similar to the work I showed in New York City.
  • 45:25So we're hoping to create a heat vulnerability index then.
  • 45:29Then which is one of the most exciting parts of the study.
  • 45:33And we'll be in the field this summer
  • 45:35and hopefully we'll get participants and get good data,
  • 45:38but we're partnering with a group called I See Change
  • 45:41who has a digital application where they allow participants
  • 45:45to just report on climate change
  • 45:47and the findings,
  • 45:49sightings in their own neighborhoods.
  • 45:50So we're gonna work with I See change to get participants
  • 45:53enrolled in our study to answer questionnaires
  • 45:56through their app that kind of report on day-to-day
  • 46:00subtle changes, changes in mood,
  • 46:02changes in sleep patterns,
  • 46:05and kinda subjective health measures
  • 46:07that will correlate with day-to-day changes in temperature
  • 46:11and even within day changes in temperature.
  • 46:13So I'm really hoping that that data collection
  • 46:15goes well this summer.
  • 46:17The other study that is kicking off now
  • 46:19is building off of the work I talked about
  • 46:23related to redlining and green space
  • 46:26and we're adding on a health component to that work
  • 46:30and really thinking about how neighborhood factors
  • 46:34can play a role in cognitive function.
  • 46:36But there's been little attention
  • 46:38on the relationship between green space
  • 46:40and cognitive function to date.
  • 46:42We do see huge racial disparities,
  • 46:45and so maybe again these systemic factors
  • 46:47that have led to very different environments
  • 46:51where people have green space around them
  • 46:53may play some role in in these health disparities.
  • 46:59And you know, this question around green gentrification,
  • 47:02does that modify the relationship?
  • 47:03Does that make green space have benefits
  • 47:07for some groups of people while it's detrimental to
  • 47:10other groups of people?
  • 47:12So in this study we're gonna be looking at,
  • 47:14we've already kind of looked at,
  • 47:15as I mentioned,
  • 47:16the relationship between historical redlining
  • 47:18and green space.
  • 47:19We're adding on measures of cognitive function
  • 47:21in a nationally representative study.
  • 47:23We're gonna be examining that,
  • 47:25looking at this maybe as a potential mediation pathway
  • 47:29and I'm looking at gentrification as a modifying variable
  • 47:32as well as potentially the role of social support
  • 47:35in cognitive function.
  • 47:37So, you know,
  • 47:38I hope we'll have some preliminary results
  • 47:40in that also maybe within the next year.
  • 47:44So hopefully just sort of in wrapping up,
  • 47:46I think, I hope you can see that there are many ways
  • 47:49I think that climate health research can inform policy
  • 47:53from, you know, characterizing the burden,
  • 47:55understanding triggers and thresholds,
  • 47:59thinking about drivers of vulnerability
  • 48:00and how to target resources
  • 48:03and also thinking about solutions.
  • 48:06I didn't get to talk at all
  • 48:07but I'm very interested in the effectiveness of solutions.
  • 48:11I think that's a huge area for us to be working on.
  • 48:14Love to think about that with anyone who's interested
  • 48:17in thinking about that more.
  • 48:19But as I did show, you know,
  • 48:21I think solutions really we need to think about
  • 48:23all the potential unintended consequences too,
  • 48:26and that's a key role.
  • 48:28So with that,
  • 48:31I'd like thank you for your attention
  • 48:34if you are interested in any more information,
  • 48:38I have my website here.
  • 48:39Probably be posting some postdoc opportunities there soon
  • 48:43just in case anyone's interested in that.
  • 48:44But yeah, and really thank you all very much.
  • 48:55<v Dr. Chen>I think because of time,</v>
  • 48:56let's have two questions.
  • 48:59Yeah.
  • 49:00(indistinct)
  • 49:10<v ->It's actually a great question.</v>
  • 49:13<v ->And I-</v>
  • 49:14<v Dr. Chen>Could you please repeat the-</v>
  • 49:16<v ->Oh, sorry, yes,</v>
  • 49:17So the question from the audience was...
  • 49:24The person here mentioned that they've heard
  • 49:26of the Be A Buddy program in New York City
  • 49:27and they were wondering if it was actually effective.
  • 49:31And so the answer is I don't have the answer to that.
  • 49:33I've actually asked the collaborators
  • 49:36if they've ever been able to evaluate that program
  • 49:39and I think they wanted to,
  • 49:42but I think they had some resource constraints
  • 49:45around actually doing an evaluation.
  • 49:47So I'm not sure they were ever able to evaluate it.
  • 49:49And in transparency, I actually don't know
  • 49:53if it's continued at this point.
  • 49:57Yeah.
  • 49:59<v Student>When you run into (indistinct)</v>
  • 50:28<v ->Yeah, being on so,</v>
  • 50:30well I think I'm actually,
  • 50:32I'm not sure.
  • 50:34Let me repeat what you're saying
  • 50:35and I'm not sure if I'm totally understanding the question,
  • 50:37but I think question was,
  • 50:38when you start to hear things about potential
  • 50:41unintended consequences, so for example,
  • 50:44someone responding that they're not sure the greening
  • 50:46is really meant for them
  • 50:48or is it meant for the person
  • 50:49that's going to potentially displace them?
  • 50:52What are some workarounds
  • 50:54about not being able to quantify that risk?
  • 50:57Is that right?
  • 50:59So I think, yeah,
  • 51:00there's a couple of answers to that question.
  • 51:05So one is I think it actually does point to the value
  • 51:08of kind of mixed methods research
  • 51:10because and I kind of grew up trained
  • 51:13as a quantitative researcher
  • 51:14and it was only more recently that I've been exposed to
  • 51:19interviewer qualitative studies.
  • 51:21And I think there is a real value
  • 51:23to kind of interdisciplinary collaborations
  • 51:26because we might not have good quantitative data on that.
  • 51:30Yeah, there are studies that are looking
  • 51:32at green gentrification,
  • 51:33we're gonna look at it in the study I just mentioned,
  • 51:35but it may be happening in some places,
  • 51:39it may not be happening in other places.
  • 51:42There may be a lot of things
  • 51:43that are triggering gentrification.
  • 51:45So it's hard to tease that out.
  • 51:47But I think we can just put some value on the words
  • 51:50that that person is speaking.
  • 51:52Those are the person's like feelings, right?
  • 51:56That's how...
  • 51:56And so whether objectively by one of the 10 ways
  • 52:01we can define gentrification,
  • 52:03it's happening,
  • 52:05that person may still be dealing with mental stress
  • 52:08and anxiety related to tho those feelings.
  • 52:11So I think that's an important piece.
  • 52:14So sort of thinking about how that, that might relate
  • 52:19to mental distress and also thinking about
  • 52:20the value of qualitative research.
  • 52:25<v Dr. Chen>So I think because of time,</v>
  • 52:27(indistinct) thank you again for.
  • 52:34<v ->(indistinct) for our online audiences,</v>
  • 52:36thanks for staying with us. <v ->Thank you.</v>
  • 52:38<v ->We got to end this masters seminar series</v>
  • 52:41and only all the best for the families, okay?