YSPH Sustainability Coffee Hour - Transitioning to Plant-Forward Food

February 05, 2021

Information

December 10, 2020

Informal discussion with YSPH faculty, staff and students who shared their experiences and tips for transitioning to plant-forward food.

Speakers: (faculty member unable to attend)

Rashonda Winters, Sr. Admin Asst.
Cassie Clark, PhD student
Rachel Hennein, MD/PhD student
Natalie Henning, MPH student
Cheyenne Liberti, MPH student
Zoe Novic, MPH student

Co-sponsored by YSPH Sustainability Committee, Plant-Based for Public Health (PB4PH, student org) and Sustainable Waste Reduction at Yale (SWAY, student org)

ID6170

To CiteDCA Citation Guide

04:38Robert Dubrow: Okay, well. Hi, everyone. I don't think we ever picked a moderator. So I guess I'll just
04:43Robert Dubrow: Started so I'm Robert Dubrow.
04:48Robert Dubrow: I'm a co chair a co Chair of the school sustainability committee and we're pleased to be offering this informal panel.
05:01Robert Dubrow: And
05:03Robert Dubrow: Why don't I just let
05:06Robert Dubrow: I see we have five of our panelists here. I know that Nicole Deziel, who was supposed to be a panelist said that she couldn't come do it to a conflict.
05:15Robert Dubrow: But maybe we could just have the panelists introduce yourselves and then get started with with the informal discussion about
05:26Robert Dubrow: You know why what the advantages are plant based diets and why you adhere to such a diet and what the issues are, you know, and what the what.
05:39Robert Dubrow: What's good about it, you know, are there any downsides, etc.
05:44Robert Dubrow: So, Zoe. Could you start
05:48Zoe Novic: Sure. Um, hi I'm Zoe. I'm a second year in the SPS program. And thank you so much everyone for joining on of an early Thursday morning during finals week I'm so pleased to see so many people here.
06:05Zoe Novic: I am
06:08Zoe Novic: My main like concentration, I guess in public health.
06:12Zoe Novic: Is in
06:13Zoe Novic: The connection between industrial factory farming and
06:20Zoe Novic: Human. Human health, nutrition, health population health
06:24Zoe Novic: And environmental health and I came to wise pH.
06:31Zoe Novic: Because previously. I was working for a farm animal advocacy organization called the humane league and I really loved it.
06:41Zoe Novic: I've been basically I grew up sort of in the animal rights world. Both my parents are animal rights advocates. My mom actually runs an animal sanctuary and animal rescue organization so
06:54Zoe Novic: That's that's like the world that I'm coming from is very animal rights focused and I really love it. And that's like where my passion lies.
07:03Zoe Novic: But I found while I was working for the farm animal advocacy group.
07:08Zoe Novic: I really wanted to focus more from like a systems perspective and a more holistic and I didn't know the term one health existed. So, but I when I came to wise pH I found that one health was really like where my heart is and so yeah that's that's where I'm coming from and
07:28Zoe Novic: This semester I started the plant based for public health student group which we have many Members present on this call. And yeah, so that's basically what we focus on we focus on amplifying the One Health perspective, from a student org and and focusing on how a plant based diet can
07:52Zoe Novic: Really like amplify that connection between animal welfare environmental health and human health.
08:01Zoe Novic: So I'll pass it on. I'll just popcorn over to Cheyenne
08:07Yeah.
08:08Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Exactly. Um, hi, everyone. I'm Cheyenne. I'm a second year in the Environmental Health Science Department mph and I
08:20Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Have been practicing plant based diet for about three or four years now. I started the college in my undergraduate degree. So I'm really passionate about.
08:28Dana Greene: Sustainability and
08:30Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Just how our choices and our lifestyle impact the environment. Um, and that's how I came into practicing a plant based diet.
08:43Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): But since I started, you know, cutting out, meat and eggs for send them cutting out other um you know like dairy and other things that didn't I felt aligned with my values like it's been such a positive experience and I feel like I enjoy food so much more. And I'm really excited to like
09:04Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): I don't know, like find new ways to express my values through my choices. Um, and, yeah, like that positive experience is something I
09:16Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Want to share and
09:18Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): I think the great thing about
09:21Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Like food choices. Is that, like, you don't have to be completely vegan to live in a more sustainable way like there are really like easy switches, you can make. Um, and, like, be proud of to
09:36Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Like cause less harm and just, I don't know, live more sustainably and that's something I am really passionate about and excited to talk about more I'm Natalie, would you like to go next.
09:52Natalie Henning: Sure. Yeah. Thank you.
09:54Natalie Henning: Hi I'm Natalie. I am a first year student in the CTE department. And I guess my interests are very similar to, I guess, what's the we and Cheyenne have talked about. I'm really interested in
10:07Natalie Henning: The intersection between human and environmental health and I'm also really passionate about climate change. And so I think food is just really, you know, the key intersection of all those topics.
10:18Natalie Henning: And so, like, so he was saying it's really, you know, approaching a plant based diet is really a way to, you know, seems issues in a holistic framework.
10:28Natalie Henning: And so when I came to, I was so excited that they had just started the plant based for public health group, which has been so awesome.
10:36Natalie Henning: And I think I've been transitioning to a plant based diet for a few years now. And so much as Cheyenne like was saying I'm not 100% vegan, but you know it's been a process for me but
10:48Natalie Henning: Just having a community here that you know is really supportive and just makes it, you know, really fun to find me recipes has been really helpful. So I'm excited to share any tips or recipes that people are curious about
11:04Natalie Henning: I'm Cassie, do you want to go next.
11:09Natalie Henning: Sure.
11:10Cassie Clark: I'm Cassie, I'm a fourth year doctoral student Environmental Health Sciences
11:16Cassie Clark: I started kind of transitioning to a plant based diet, probably for the first time in college. So I wouldn't really even call myself a fully vegetarian until probably three or four years ago.
11:29Cassie Clark: And for me, like a lot of people have already said, it kind of started with learning about sustainability and learning about climate change.
11:38Cassie Clark: Which, you know, was something that I started studying in college when I started studying biology and Environmental Sciences
11:46Cassie Clark: So I don't know that I have anything really novel to add at this point but um my research really focused kind of that interface between human and environmental health
11:56Cassie Clark: So sustainability something that's really close to both, you know, my interests and also my heart and like everyone else has already said, food is food is a great way for an individual to try to make an impact on these things we care so much about
12:14Robert Dubrow: Why don't you go next.
12:20Rashonda Winters: Hello, my name is Shonda, and I am a senior administrative assistant and the dean's office. I've been at Yale for budding year and a half, and I've been a vegetarian for in January would be 12 years, um,
12:36Rashonda Winters: I started out, I started out cutting out beef and pork. That was how I initially started and then I did that for about, I started that and 99 and once I did that I
12:50Rashonda Winters: Decided to stop eating me and then I got pregnant in 2006 so when I got pregnant with my son, my husband was really worried about my nutrition.
13:01Rashonda Winters: So I started eating meat. Again, but after that it was hard to go you know from going to eat meat to becoming a vegetarian again. So my son was born in 2007. So then in 2009 and made the decision.
13:14Rashonda Winters: That I was going to totally cut out me in my diet again. So once I did that I never went back, it was really, um, I don't know, kinda like a
13:26Rashonda Winters: I don't even know I made the decision to become a vegetarian. But then after a while. I started watching different videos about animal cruelty and how animals are being killed, you know, for
13:38Rashonda Winters: For meat products and those really bothered me. And I think that was the icing on the cake to make me never go back to me again. So
13:47Rashonda Winters: Although in the past when I first day before I was pregnant. I was always tempted. Once I started watching these videos and started becoming more informed.
13:55Rashonda Winters: I think that that's what made me really make that decision that I just didn't want to go back to it.
14:01Rashonda Winters: I'm my husband and my son. So I'm married. And I have a son who's 13 they both eat meat. So I think that
14:09Rashonda Winters: People always wonder like, how am I vegetarian. I'm the one who cooks in the house.
14:15Rashonda Winters: But I tell people you give me a recipe long as I know how to cook it out. I follow a recipe to the tea because I know there's things I can't taste, because you know when I cook. So, um,
14:26Rashonda Winters: And they're pretty much not picky eaters. I mean, if it doesn't taste good. They never told me they just eat it. So, um, so that's pretty much how we're sustaining in my house, but it's it's been a journey. I think the most difficult thing for me has been cutting out dairy products.
14:42Rashonda Winters: The dairy is really hard for me. I love ice cream. I love cheese meat that's fine, but the dairy products, I've
14:51Rashonda Winters: Been on and off. Been a vegan, like, I'll do it. I usually start the beginning of the year. I'll do it for a couple of months. Then there's always something calling me back. So that's something I'm trying to work on. So other than that, you know, it's been pretty much an easy journey.
15:08Robert Dubrow: And Rachel, I think you're the less panelists.
15:13Rachel Hennein: Hi everybody, my name is Rachel and I
15:18Rachel Hennein: So I kind of got interested in doing a plant based diet.
15:22Rachel Hennein: Really like when I started medical school and I was learning
15:27Rachel Hennein: A lot about how plant based diets are really good for you. Nutrition wise and health wise but then also that they're good on the environment. So that's kind of when I started like really thought it was important. It was like, you know, getting two birds with one stone kind of thing.
15:46Rachel Hennein: And I've been really interested in climate justice. So my my thinking around it is kind of like if I have kind of the privilege and the money to be able to do a plant based diet that I should do that.
16:00Rachel Hennein: Kind of like ethically for those who can't do that. And so
16:06Rachel Hennein: So I started it was actually my New Year's resolution last year and I and I basically done it. My the way I transitioned was
16:16Rachel Hennein: I so my family. They don't understand what vegetarians are lone vegans and my partner is definitely meat eater. And so it was definitely a hard transition
16:28Rachel Hennein: Especially for like family holidays and stuff like that. So I would kind of make you know some exceptions.
16:36Rachel Hennein: At the beginning, I also traveled to Uganda for a global health project and I definitely made exceptions there if I was like invited into someone's home.
16:45Rachel Hennein: Especially, they're like, you know, you serve guests meet because that's like the most expensive like luxury item. So I was gonna say no to it like I thought that would be kind of rude. So
16:57Rachel Hennein: Yeah, the first year has been definitely not fully vegetarian or vegan, but
17:03Rachel Hennein: But transitioning there. I think next year. My next step is going to be
17:09Rachel Hennein: Probably to cut out
17:12Rachel Hennein: So my main thing that I'm having a hard time cutting out on this is eggs.
17:16Rachel Hennein: So I'm going to try and think of ways that I can do that better. But I'm happy to to be here and I'm really new to this process. So,
17:25Rachel Hennein: Yeah, it's and I also really like to bake. So I've really liked vegan baking and my family can't really say no to that stuff.
17:37Robert Dubrow: So we could open it up to
17:39Robert Dubrow: comments and questions from the audience. And if there are no comments or questions. I have a few to to get things started. But let me first see if anyone else wants to say something.
17:54Denise Meyer: So,
17:59Denise Meyer: Let's
17:59Robert Dubrow: See, I think, raise your hand. Oh, and
18:02Robert Dubrow: So why don't Kathy and then Denise.
18:07Catherine Yeckel: Hi everybody I'm Kathy and I i come from sort of a nutrition background as well. So one of the things that I find
18:16Catherine Yeckel: Fascinating with everything that everyone has said this morning is also the fact that one of the classifications of plant based is not necessarily that you eliminate
18:26Catherine Yeckel: Everything else, it's the, the idea of sustainability and promoting mostly plant based, so it's it's the distinction from vegetarian or vegan to something that that is
18:39Catherine Yeckel: Forward Thinking for hopefully more, you know, a huge population at large, with the idea that most of the plate should be a plant based
18:50Catherine Yeckel: Impact and i and i just i think that's a, I just wanted to throw that out there because I think in the end if we are trying to global sustainability, climate change and thinking about diet in a real
19:04Catherine Yeckel: You know, an animal treatment, Matt. Everything that that there may be solutions that aren't so so aren't so severe, one way or the other.
19:15Catherine Yeckel: And I actually found that that the I love this sort of definition of plant based, actually.
19:22Denise Meyer: So just
19:23Catherine Yeckel: Just throwing that out there.
19:28Cassie Clark: I think that I think the gate, keeping people based on really strict dietary definitions can really only hurt.
19:35Cassie Clark: I think that sometimes it's already kind of been mentioned, but because of kind of class boundaries and kind of cost barriers. Sometimes I think like a full vegan diet, although it can be really cost effective seems out of reach for some people, and it can seem like there's a lot of judgment.
19:52Cassie Clark: Especially if you kind of are looking for, like, an online forum of people have, like, particularly vegan diets and so i think i think plant based could be a really kind of inclusive and inclusive way to spread a plant based diet. Yeah, I like that point. Kathy.
20:11Robert Dubrow: Denise you wanted to say something.
20:13Denise Meyer: Yeah, so
20:14Denise Meyer: I i
20:15Denise Meyer: Sort of shifted in this direction about 15 years ago when I went on a meditation retreat for 10 days and have full vegetarian diet and I really liked how I felt.
20:28Denise Meyer: Um, and, having said that, I'm not a full vegetarian. I'm really a Presbyterian, I still eat on occasion, seafood, it does make family gatherings a lot easier.
20:40Denise Meyer: Um, but one of the things in the last couple years that I've been sort of thinking about as I make my choices is the
20:51Denise Meyer: Climate Impact of my choices. So if I'm eating cheese. I recently, like I'm really leaning towards sheep or goats cheese, because the environmental impact of raising those animals as opposed to cattle.
21:05Denise Meyer: Is so different. And I'm wondering if there are other food choices that you see that in in your work. Rub
21:21Robert Dubrow: Hmm. You're putting me on the spot here.
21:26Denise Meyer: Either some vegetables that are so resource intensive intensive for us to be buying
21:32Denise Meyer: That maybe that's not the best choice and I'm going to make this up. Like are there is the amount of water in an avocado.
21:42Denise Meyer: And the environmental disaster for for us to be, you know, making that a big part of the diet. And that's just, I'm just pulling that one out of the of the third
21:54Denise Meyer: For their choices like that in what foods in a plant based diet, you can make
22:02Robert Dubrow: So I know I don't know much about that. So I'll throw it in case the panelists do I'll throw it to them, except for what I do know that almonds are very water intensive
22:12Robert Dubrow: And so there. And especially, and they're grown like when they're grown in a place like California where waters that are premium. Maybe you're not the best thing to be doing. But let me see if any of the panelists know more about this than I do.
22:28Natalie Henning: Yeah, I don't know if I know a lot more about it. But that was the example that I was going to bring up. So when I started my transition to a plant based diet I switched to almond milk, but recently I've switched to oat milk instead because I find that to be a less climate impacts option.
22:49Natalie Henning: But I think generally i don't know i i don't know if this is the wrong way to approach it, but I hope that you know my choice to do a you know any plant based option is going to have a lower impact. And so it's kind of, you know, I don't want to be discouraged.
23:07Natalie Henning: To approach a plant based diet, just because I think you know the research is you know too overwhelming to see what is the, you know, least impactful option so
23:17Natalie Henning: I think that's definitely you know kind of the next step in the process to see, you know what, you know, just in a plant based diet. What are the best options.
23:27Natalie Henning: But that's definitely a challenge. And I think, you know, that's definitely depends how much time and research. You want to put in to some extent.
23:37Robert Dubrow: But actually, I have a question. Oh, sorry, did you want to say something about this.
23:41Zoe Novic: Um,
23:42Zoe Novic: I was just going to say, I totally
23:44Zoe Novic: Agree with Natalie, and I think
23:46Zoe Novic: The, the nitpicky nature of
23:53Zoe Novic: plant based diets. Like, I mean we can research like which vegetable is the most water intensive. I know like asparagus is very water intensive
24:04Zoe Novic: But I think the bottom line is sort of back to Professor yokels point that like everybody like systems perspective and like holistically, like everybody should just be incorporating more
24:18Zoe Novic: Fruits and vegetables into their diet and it like in comparing just sort of systems like fruits and vegetables versus meat and dairy. I think fruits, fruits and vegetables sort of win every time in terms of more sustainable and
24:32Zoe Novic: And better for the planet and obviously better treatment for the animals and
24:38Zoe Novic: Yeah.
24:40Zoe Novic: I agree, Natalie.
24:47Robert Dubrow: So yeah, and also better for health, it's it's really great how everything aligns in this case.
24:54Robert Dubrow: But when I was gonna ask is,
24:56Robert Dubrow: So free range animals. You know, it's a lot
25:03Robert Dubrow: Less cruel to the animals, and it's also a lot more sustainable. So I just wanted to raise to the panel, the issue of, like, what are your. And I should say I'm a vegetarian. Also, so I don't I don't eat meat and I'm largely a vegan, but what are the reasons.
25:22Robert Dubrow: For going for doing vegetarian or vegan, as opposed to not eating animals or animal products that are raised.
25:32Robert Dubrow: You know, in cave in factories using fact industrial agriculture methods, but do eat products you know that or or from animals that are humanely treated
25:51Rachel Hennein: Yeah, I think that's, that's a great point. And like, especially for me. The reason why I explained. I think it's really important when you're introducing this to your family and friends like you explain why you're doing it and so
26:03Rachel Hennein: I explained, like I'm really nervous about climate change. I think that you know people's personal food choices until we have some sort of
26:11Rachel Hennein: National Policy on anything related to climate change mitigation like I need to do something myself. And so this is what I'm choosing to do
26:21Rachel Hennein: It, you know, having a plant based diet, you know, is way better in terms of carbon emissions and all that. And so my family has respected that in, like, for example,
26:32Rachel Hennein: for Thanksgiving. Instead of, you know, buying a, a, just a random Turkey, they made sure it was a free range like Turkey that, you know, was on a Sustainable Farm and all that stuff. So I think when you kind of frame it in in those terms people
26:53Rachel Hennein: People understand it. And when you're making exceptions. They kind of respect that and and pay attention to, like, what kind of products you're willing to to eat.
27:05Rachel Hennein: See, I really like that point.
27:10Rachel Hennein: I think
27:11Cassie Clark: One thing that I've learned is that you just have to be really cautious with those definitions, because there. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors in the food world.
27:21Cassie Clark: And you know cage free and free range don't mean the same thing. And even, you know, a farm receiving like a grass fed or a free range kind of designation can depend upon
27:34Cassie Clark: You know the inspector. I got actually a really good document from like the Environmental Working Group recently about all these different distinctions and how they can vary based on the place and based on the inspector.
27:46Cassie Clark: And if I find a virtual version will forward that on, but I think, you know, for someone transitioning to a plant based diet, who still wants to incorporate some animal products. I think certainly looking for things with with those labels.
27:59Cassie Clark: Would would help in the transition, but I would just advise being really cautious because sometimes it's not really a reflection of the true circumstances that the animals are in
28:12Cassie Clark: Maybe Zoe has has a little more knowledge about it.
28:17Zoe Novic: Um, yeah, I, you, you totally nailed it. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors. There's a lot of
28:22Zoe Novic: Different definitions.
28:25Zoe Novic: For example, I think for chickens, who are who live on free range farms and I, and this goes for turkeys as well.
28:34Zoe Novic: Some of those farms, they can still live inside
28:39Zoe Novic: You know, giant warehouses pack together really tightly, but it qualifies as free range because they they they have the ability to go outside because there's a door and they might have access to
28:54Zoe Novic: You know, a yard. However, if you're a chicken or a turkey who just happens to be living on the other side of the warehouse and and not know that there's a door out available to the outside.
29:08Zoe Novic: Your life is the same. Um so yeah you. You nailed it. Cassie, there's a lot of
29:17Zoe Novic: There's a lot of power and lack of transparency in the ag industry. Um, I do think
29:25Zoe Novic: About the question about like dairy versus
29:31Zoe Novic: Meat and just that transition. Um, I was vegetarian for a long time and I just thought like, Yeah, obviously, like, I don't want to eat a dead animal and
29:45Zoe Novic: Dairy like animals don't have to die for my dairy, but the industries are very much linked and there's an immense amount of cruelty in the dairy industry.
29:58Zoe Novic: And so that's why I stopped eating dairy and luckily that was about 10 years ago and I really thought that my life was over. Because I wouldn't get to eat cheese anymore and I wouldn't get to like have a cake or anything. And luckily there's been
30:11Zoe Novic: So much improvement in dairy alternatives and my life is great and I get to enjoy a lot of vegan cheeses and baking cakes and all of that, but it is I think a couple people mentioned like
30:30Zoe Novic: Getting off eggs and cheese and all that stuff. It's that is for sure the toughest transition
30:38Zoe Novic: But also as other people have said like, you know, it doesn't have to be like 100%, you can still make a lot of difference in your own personal health and environmental impact impact just in, you know, any kind of transition that you can make
30:54Zoe Novic: I think we had a good time. Oh.
30:57Hi.
30:58Leah Puklin: Um, I HOW ARE YOU. I'M I am really passionate about this as well. And so thank you for hosting this and I'm really excited to participate and
31:10Leah Puklin: I don't really have a question. It's just kind of just some comments that might spur some conversation. But you know, I think.
31:18Leah Puklin: A lot of people. So I'm very interested in the like nutrition component of a plant based diet. And I think there's a lot of people who are unhealthy vegetarians, you know, they, they eat potato chips and french fries, like those are plant based, and so kind of
31:36Leah Puklin: Making sure we explain more about kind of what that truly means. And also, I'm sure you know you guys talk about this all the time, but the
31:47Leah Puklin: Emerging of these kind of plant alternative meats in and like the impossible burgers and all that and
31:56Leah Puklin: You know, it's obviously in the sustainability perspective moving people hopefully away from the actual meats, but in terms of nutritional impact. You know, I don't think they're the best option for our health. And so just bringing up two points that we can maybe discuss
32:22Rashonda Winters: Hi.
32:22Rashonda Winters: I just wanted to say. I think you brought up a really good point because one of the things for me is what being a vegetarian is so long I started
32:32Rashonda Winters: I've always been a picky eater. So I started leaning toward more carbs and like you said, potato chips french fries pasta things that
32:42Rashonda Winters: It wasn't a meat, but it also wasn't the best for me to eat on a daily basis. So what will happen is when you initially start you change your diet you drop a lot of weight and well for most people.
32:54Rashonda Winters: And that's what happened. So then I started to gain a lot of weight because I started making you know not the smartest choices, just to like when I go out to restaurants. I think that
33:06Rashonda Winters: As we said, we've come a long way. Because a lot of restaurants don't offer the best choices when it comes to vegetarian options and I feel like as of late, it has been
33:17Rashonda Winters: improved so much. I'm so I will always go for like, I'll just eat a basket of fries, you know, in a salad. So I think that
33:26Rashonda Winters: It's really important to learn about, you know, if you're going to move toward a plant based diet becoming a vegetarian a vegan, whatever your choice. Maybe I think the
33:36Rashonda Winters: Just becoming more knowledgeable and because you will end up eating a lot of things that are very much unhealthy for you. So my mom is so funny that I've always like I said, I've been a vegetarian for a very long time, but
33:50Rashonda Winters: My family is so used to it and it's so funny because I want to say maybe two months ago, my mom became a vegetarian.
33:57Rashonda Winters: And four months ago my niece, who was seven, she became a vegetarian, but at the same time.
34:03Rashonda Winters: It's so easy to lean toward vegetarian substitute meets because that's what I did in the beginning as well.
34:11Rashonda Winters: And I tried to tell them like you have to have that balance. You have to you know make sure you're not eating a lot of the substitutes as well because it's not
34:20Rashonda Winters: healthier for you, even with the, um, which so I think it's the beyond burger.
34:26Rashonda Winters: It has like 28 grams of fat. I'm like, you might as well just eat a regular burger. You know, so what's the point of me. If you're trying to do it for a healthier option that that part doesn't make sense if you're just doing it to stay away from me.
34:40Rashonda Winters: So I think that people have to just become more knowledgeable, because it is a little difficult. And what Zoe said one of my hardest thing about transitioning to becoming a vegan, although we've come such a long way with the cheese. I love cheese and it's just
34:56Rashonda Winters: That she just cannot, it does not measure up for me. I just have to be honest, I've been a vegan.
35:02Rashonda Winters: And I'm always missing something and pizza is like my favorite food. If I have to pick a food to eat every day for the rest of my life. It will be pizza and I've never, I had good vegan pizza but it's just not the same. So,
35:19Rashonda Winters: That's the difficult part for me pray for me.
35:25Denise Meyer: So there's a there was a Michael Pollan when he wrote his book on on food. He talked about eat food real food.
35:33Denise Meyer: And one of the things like persona with a lot of the substitute meats, especially not only the very high in fat but high in salt and they're highly processed foods. So I quickly kind of backed away from those but you know the sodium levels in some of those are astronomical
35:56Question.
35:58Tanya Davis: This is Tanja um so my I'm kind of trying. I'm considering I have been considering going into a vegetarian diet.
36:10Tanya Davis: Mainly because my son.
36:14Tanya Davis: Wants to be he's gradually becoming vegetarian like he's I've not dealt pork and beef out of his diet. Those are the easiest to to let go of because we didn't really consume it, that all that much.
36:31Tanya Davis: But I'm just wondering, like, like Shonda was saying to like dairy is, I know it's going to be the last thing, because it's just really difficult. So I'm going to give you any of you could share some really good dairy alternatives specifically or particularly cheese.
36:53Tanya Davis: I have become more aware of just how much cheese. We, he and I don't think I was so aware of it until now. And so I've been trying to like cut back on the amount of cheese that we've been eating, um,
37:05Tanya Davis: But I think if I if because I know it, you know, our palate takes the time to
37:12Tanya Davis: Adjust
37:14Tanya Davis: Um, and so I don't know if there's any really good products out there, particularly cheese products that you could share the names that I could maybe kind of slowly incorporate into our diet.
37:28Robert Dubrow: So I could say something about that.
37:31Robert Dubrow: A lot of the cheese products, in my view, are kind of like plastic.
37:37Robert Dubrow: They're really they really seem artificial
37:40Robert Dubrow: And as Denise was saying they they contain a lot of
37:47Robert Dubrow: Salt also which which isn't healthy but sodas regular cheese. So it's kind of a wash.
37:53Robert Dubrow: But, um, one that I love and I see. So we just put some in the chat, but one that I like is cool, the brand is it's a soy cheese. It's called Go veggie
38:04Robert Dubrow: So,
38:07Robert Dubrow: Anyway, you might try that one as well as the ones that Zoe put in
38:14Robert Dubrow: And so I see that Dana. Dana, you have thanks for pointing out that there's some hands raised.
38:22Robert Dubrow: So why don't you speak now Dana.
38:25Dana Greene: Hi everyone.
38:29Dana Greene: See, do I, Rob, did you want to do I need to say who I am and where I'm from, or anything like that, you need it to me. I wasn't in the I didn't catch the first five minutes of the conversation at paradise.
38:43Robert Dubrow: Yeah, that's okay, just yeah just briefly finds of saving you are
38:47Dana Greene: You okay I'm Dana green and senior admin and C D department. So I was, um, and I think this is great. This is a great problem and it will be and I hope you guys do it again or either
39:01Dana Greene: Monthly or something like that because
39:05Dana Greene: I was happy to see the announcement of it.
39:12Dana Greene: I want to transition to
39:16Dana Greene: Vegetarian diet more of, I should say that because I don't think I'm ready yet to go all vegetarian, but I'd like to, as I get older, be healthier. Then I as healthy as I can and protect my skin and etc. So it'd be great to learn from others.
39:40Dana Greene: That's been along this journey for years, like with Shonda and I heard her say, you know, wealth.
39:47Dana Greene: It would so is
39:49Catherine Yeckel: So I need support.
39:51Dana Greene: In other words,
39:51Dana Greene: So be great to and to hear what you guys have to say in what you have done and to happen. And then also, I'm just learning. So I and I know that I'm not ready to cut. I'm not a heavy meat eater, but I don't. But, but I would like to have like Kathy was saying.
40:12Dana Greene: More the plant place more on my plate so of the plant base like 90% at least
40:20Dana Greene: And and then you just finally, you know, going, going all vegetarian, though I would love to do that. I know it's gonna take a while. And it's okay.
40:30Dana Greene: But it is it is it in another question I have is it. Are there people that do do that they're not totally me. I'm like, if I wanted to do just a veggie vegetarian and I'm fish, maybe, and
40:49Dana Greene: A little turkey or chicken every now and then, or either a meat alternative and it but you know I am a veggie person. I love vegetables or different guides. So that's what I say right now.
41:05Robert Dubrow: Thank you. So then one of the things we were talking about before that and Kathy was pointing out is
41:11Dana Greene: Is that
41:11Robert Dubrow: You can think of it as a continuum that
41:15Robert Dubrow: You know, so you're a 90% so that's better than if you were 70%
41:21Robert Dubrow: And, you know, and it's okay to be 90% if that's you know
41:26Dana Greene: That's where you
41:27Land.
41:29Robert Dubrow: So, so that was that really the issue was discussed a bit before and I see Holly, you have your hand raised.
41:39Holly Burrows: Yeah, I mean, I've been
41:40Holly Burrows: Collecting several comments, not specifically in response to the most recent question, although I will say the way when I
41:50Holly Burrows: First became vegetarian and then vegan, the way I approached it was that I started when I grocery shop I filled my house with the things that I wanted to be eating and I said you know when I'm eating it with other people and I'm eating out
42:03Holly Burrows: You know, I won't try to change that for now. But what I'll start with is filling my home with things that I would like to see myself eating and
42:12Holly Burrows: And I guess the great thing is that there's so many resources out there now online.
42:19Holly Burrows: Blogs cookbooks. I'm also going to say that I know that the plant based for public health student group is a student group, but we have tons of resources that we would love to share with
42:29Holly Burrows: The wise pH and Yale community beyond just students. So if anyone is like interested in joining like our Facebook group where we have we have like a Google Doc spreadsheet with tons of resources that's food.
42:42Holly Burrows: Podcast books all of that stuff like we would love to share it with everyone. So that's a thought on the most recent question.
42:50Holly Burrows: In terms of
42:52Holly Burrows: I think Leah's question and also Dr Jaco I loved your comment from the beginning.
42:58Holly Burrows: And it was interesting that we mentioned like plant based, not always being healthy like generally in my brain I equate using the term plant based over vegan with focusing more on on health, rather than
43:11Holly Burrows: Just like what you're eating and not eating and I personally have always avoided the term vegan, just because my experience with it has been so
43:19Holly Burrows: Like stigmatizing almost and I got tired of people putting a label on me and branding meet that as being who I am. So I always have preferred plant based
43:29Holly Burrows: But I think like I've heard like a wholefoods plant based diet as like a term together a lot. So I think that kind of helps move people in the direction of the healthy plant based eating and not fries or potatoes, which is a client.
43:45Holly Burrows: And I also think in terms of like getting other people interested or helping bridge the gap to go in more I'm vegetarian or vegan like using nutrition is a lot easier than
43:59Holly Burrows: Going the ethics route because the ethics route feels very all or nothing, right, if you think that it's cruel and you think that it's bad for the environment.
44:07Holly Burrows: Especially, I think the cruelty. Like if it's if it's crusades cruel tomorrow. You know, it's, you can't. It's hard to reduce based off of that.
44:14Holly Burrows: But approaching it from nutrition is really it is really where you get into the continuum and like every kind of every step is good and every step further you go on that continuum is great.
44:27Holly Burrows: And then the last thing that I'm Rachel kind of brought up for me is like individual choices.
44:35Holly Burrows: And what role individual choices play. And actually, when I first became began, I was very
44:40Holly Burrows: I was very set on it but I very much avoided talking about it I avoided, making it a big deal. I just kind of like hit in the corner and I think
44:49Holly Burrows: Meeting my friends at school, public health and being part of plant based Republic health and
44:55Holly Burrows: My community at Yale has really encouraged me to be an advocate for that and to like not be afraid to ask if there's a vegan option to ask why we don't have one to ask at restaurants to ask at school, public health, we have free events.
45:08Holly Burrows: So while it is an individual choice. And I think that's important. I think there's like also role for just like making it more accessible and mainstream and like if there's interest then companies well accommodate they have to. So I think that's really important.
45:25Robert Dubrow: Yeah, if I could just pick up on that point.
45:29Robert Dubrow: For the first year students
45:31Robert Dubrow: Were hopefully things will be back to normal next fall and it really helps.
45:40Robert Dubrow: In terms of trying to move the school, public health, which, of course, should be a plant based diet, you know. So for the first year students who don't know, normally, there are a lot of seminars where food is served.
45:53Robert Dubrow: And the seminars vary a lot in terms of the kind of food that served and often
46:01Robert Dubrow: The and partly understandably, the key consideration for the people, for the departments who are buying the food is cost.
46:10Robert Dubrow: But that often translates into serving something that isn't very healthy.
46:16Robert Dubrow: So I think the school needs to be pushed you know into serving more
46:24Robert Dubrow: To align more with its values and to serve nutritious mainly plant based food at events and it's really helpful if students are involved in pushing that because the administration does
46:39Robert Dubrow: Is just try to be responsive to students. I just wanted to mention that for next year when hopefully we'll have those kinds of events again.
46:48Robert Dubrow: And I see. I think there's some hands up. Hello.
46:52Robert Dubrow: Um,
46:54Robert Dubrow: Let's see, when I'm here.
46:57Guinevere (she/her) Oliver: Hi, my name is Glenda, dear, and I'm a first year Matheson
47:01Guinevere (she/her) Oliver: And I was just
47:03Guinevere (she/her) Oliver: Wondering if the panelists who I noticed on this a little bit already but I was hoping you could talk more explicitly about how to communicate with family and friends who might not be very supportive.
47:14Guinevere (she/her) Oliver: Of transitioning to a more plant based diet. Like, for example, recently I decided to stop eating fish and
47:22Guinevere (she/her) Oliver: Cut that out of my diet and my mom said I guess that's fine, but you're not going to become a vegan right which which I said I'm not promising, but, um, do you have any advice for how to make those conversations easier and to not feel like a burden.
47:40Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): I can talk a little about that.
47:42Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Um, so when I first started focusing more on cloud based diet, um,
47:49Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): None of my family members like wanted to do it with me or anything at first. Um, but, you know, I, I was also really concerned about that. Like if I'm going to go eat at my grandma's house. I don't want to like
48:04Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Act ungrateful. If I like say, I'm not going to eat. Will you cook for me because there's meat in it.
48:10Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): So I really enjoy cooking. So a lot of it for me became like making things that I wanted to share with my family and like showing them how delicious.
48:23Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Plant based food can be and that, like, for me, it's not about restriction. It's about like this is my choice and I have so many choices within this plant based
48:36Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): Diet that are like exciting and delicious.
48:40Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): And then like through that process like my mom also got really excited about it. And she's also now practice and plant based diet and all of my brothers still eat me.
48:53Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): There now like super supportive like last time I visited my Brother Matt has college. He was like really excited to take me to this new vegan restaurant that opened in town.
49:04Cheyenne Liberti (she/her): And like, yeah, so just like I think it's a like about being patient and but also like being firm and in what you've decided and like being open to talking about it and to sharing it and just like trying to stay as positive as possible. Um, yeah, that's that was my experience.
49:30Rashonda Winters: I just wanted to say that
49:33Rashonda Winters: It can be a little difficult, especially when you're going to gatherings and things that family or their cooking and you don't eat things and how I handled it. I mean,
49:44Rashonda Winters: Because family will say, okay, Shonda, but what are you going to eat. So sometimes I will eat before
49:49Rashonda Winters: And sometimes I had times where I will just bring something of my own because my biggest thing I just didn't want people to make us and people will still do that say, Oh, we're having Thanksgiving at my house. Would you want to eat. So, um,
50:03Rashonda Winters: Sometimes I'll look up different things like, oh, maybe we can make this, but at the same time I'm I don't want people making a fuss over it because it's my choice and I don't want to inconvenience. Other people
50:14Rashonda Winters: But I think as Cheyenne said it's something that you have to stand firm on. It's not something that you should shy away from talking about. It's your choice, just like
50:22Rashonda Winters: It's my choice to just eat healthier or, you know, when you have something you really believe in. It's not about
50:30Rashonda Winters: Trying to make other people you know take on your beliefs, but this is just something that I want to do. So people will often as well, you're a vegetarian, but your husband and your son eats meat that's their choice. I never wanted to force it.
50:44Rashonda Winters: When my son one. One day he 13 if he decides he wants to be a vegetarian. That's fine. My husband is definitely he was a vegetarian, up until he was like 10 but then he just started eating meat and he's never going back
50:56Rashonda Winters: So I think that it's just all about and especially an African American community. One of the biggest things that I always get
51:04Rashonda Winters: Black people. They're not vegetarians, you know, but you know, I guess I was the exception to the rule. And now you're seeing more people come out.
51:13Rashonda Winters: And talk about being vegetarians or practicing a plant based diet. So I think it's really important to, you know, let people know because sometimes you are the first, but you're not. You're never going to be the last. So I think that's really important and
51:28Rashonda Winters: I it's not the easiest thing to do for some people. I was never I'm not a big eater. And I never was a big meat eater. So it wasn't as difficult for me. So I took it just
51:41Rashonda Winters: You know, start off with two days a week, practicing, you know, eating plant based meals and then just gradually move it up. Everybody can do like cold turkey.
51:50Rashonda Winters: Because then you'll find yourself with anything else, anything you put out your diet, you start to want more. So I think that just doing it the right way gradually getting
52:00Rashonda Winters: Gradually doing it because even people like Dana because she knows I'm a vegetarian. She'll give me a call to say, Sean. Do we have vegetarian options. So I think
52:09Rashonda Winters: That it's a good thing that people know that you're a vegetarian, because they'll start to say, well, what
52:14Rashonda Winters: You know well Shannon is a vegetarian. What will we have for her, or there may be vegetarians here and I've never since
52:21Rashonda Winters: Until I came to the School of Public Health. I've never seen so many
52:24Rashonda Winters: Vegetarians vegans people practice. I've never seen. So I started to feel like, oh I fit in here now that I'm working here. It's not something that's uncommon.
52:36Rashonda Winters: And one of the things is, I never thought about the sustainability aspect of things. And since working at the School of Public Health. That's one of the things like I often find myself.
52:47Rashonda Winters: Thinking about now in climate change those things were never in my mind. I never thought about it. But those are some of the things. Now I'm focused on now. It's not just about the eating and the being healthier. It's more about the environment as well.
53:03Robert Dubrow: So let's see. Rachel, and then Tanya and you both have your hands up.
53:08Rachel Hennein: Hi. Yeah, I was just gonna, I can comment on on talking to families as well.
53:15Rachel Hennein: I think for my family. It was also like a lot of our foods are, you know, Cultural foods and
53:21Rachel Hennein: You know, it's important to say I'm not, you know, I'm not rejecting my culture like it was almost like, oh, Rachel, went to an Ivy League and became vegan, like, which is kind of like, yeah, they
53:33Rachel Hennein: Anyways, so, so I think it's important to say like, if it's a cultural food or something like that. I'm not rejecting this
53:39Rachel Hennein: Food, but like I really love all the flavors and stuff. It's just like the meat of it.
53:45Rachel Hennein: Like, what can we do instead of that or, or, like, can you just. Can we leave the meat on the side for mine or something like that, because it is, it is important to
53:55Rachel Hennein: To be aware of the cultural stuff, but then also to say but but at the end of the day, this is my choice and like kind of gradually becoming more firm like I've been hunkered down with
54:06Rachel Hennein: My mom, my sister and her new baby to help with childcare but and her and her husband, and when I first got here.
54:15Rachel Hennein: You know months ago.
54:17Rachel Hennein: I was more lenient like the first the first couple days, but then
54:21Rachel Hennein: But then I realized that they didn't really understand everything without putting boundaries on. So then I put stronger boundaries. And since then, they really they really understood
54:32Rachel Hennein: I will say that to make make your diets like whole based as well like to Leah's point. There are a lot of food bloggers who
54:42Rachel Hennein: Who do this. And so, and also even going off the choose question who make who make their own cheeses, that's actually much easier. I've done this before.
54:52Rachel Hennein: With a nut and then also some water in something called nutritional yeast, which
54:57Rachel Hennein: Has like vitamin B 12 in it, which is really important for vegans to get and then also kind of a CHEESY FLAVOR. So
55:03Rachel Hennein: My favorite bloggers, or someone called minimalist Baker and then also someone called the Canadian African who does a lot of like African vegan food. She's gotten in so
55:15Rachel Hennein: I can put those in the chat. But those are those are two that really, it's, it's heavy on veggies and they do pretty simple vegan or vegetarian meals.
55:27Rachel Hennein: So, yeah.
55:29Robert Dubrow: Hey, Tanya.
55:32Robert Dubrow: Okay, I just
55:33Tanya Davis: I just wanted to say that, um, so I think part of when it comes to family.
55:40Tanya Davis: Or friends or whoever being okay with me. I'm, I'm looking at on the other side of a non non vegetarian. And so I think there's automatically when stolen a family member.
55:52Tanya Davis: Or close friend or anyone that might have said to me, I'll say my own experience. I don't know why, but this is all almost automatic feeling of judgment.
56:02Tanya Davis: And it has nothing to do with the person. It's totally me. So I think it's, that's part of the resistance. I think that people might feel within their families.
56:15Tanya Davis: There might be this feeling of on being judged because I'm I eat meat. Still, and that's not it. You know, and step.
56:22Tanya Davis: On that, that's that person that person's individual decision for their own lives. And it's not a reflection.
56:29Tanya Davis: Of the other person. So I think that's part of it. And so I don't know if it's maybe a way. I'm a thought to say
56:38Tanya Davis: You know when when you express that you you're going into the vegetarian lifestyle or vegan lifestyle is that that family, or does it feel like it's any type of
56:51Tanya Davis: You know, jab at them, you know, um, so that's what I thought of me when I forgot which young lady just made the statement about fear we um but I know on the other side. That's probably maybe a little bit of what they might be feeling
57:11Natalie Henning: Yeah, I think that's
57:12Natalie Henning: Such a good point. And you know I have really tried to introduce a plant based diet to my family members and I think
57:20Natalie Henning: In the beginning, it's really more about, you know, adding foods, rather than eliminating foods and you know that goes back to talking about, you know, actually having a healthy plant based diet.
57:30Natalie Henning: And so like my grandparents, they've had the same diet for like 80 years and they're not going to stop having cold cuts at breakfast. But maybe I can get them to add a cup of fruit as well.
57:41Natalie Henning: In the morning. So I think, you know, I definitely in the beginning, like some other people have said I really shied away from, you know, speaking out, you know, to friends and family about why plant based is important, but
57:53Natalie Henning: I think my new approach now is really, you know, I'm coming from a place where I want them to be plant based, because I care about them and I want them to be healthy. So
58:03Natalie Henning: I think when you're really coming from a place of love, rather than judgment, you know, you can really be more successful that way.
58:13Robert Dubrow: So you have your interest.
58:16Zoe Novic: Yeah, um, I
58:18Zoe Novic: Gosh, everyone's just really nailing it. Um, so I don't know if I have much to add, but I think Tanya what you just said, I'm
58:25Zoe Novic: Having been vegetarian and vegan for a long time. I do feel like I've been in that position before where if I go to a group meal event and I
58:39Zoe Novic: You know, it comes up that I am vegan and then whoever I'm speaking with my feel like they are being judged and there's there's just a lot of stigma that comes with
58:51Zoe Novic: No matter, no matter which position you're in and whether they might feel like I'm judging them because they're not vegan, whether that has to do with animal rights or nutrition or environmentalism, or whatever. And even though I'm not and
59:08Zoe Novic: There. When you're dealing with family that could be
59:14Zoe Novic: You know, like a moral judgment or nutritional judgment and yeah there's just a lot of cultural stigma around that I know one of the tech techniques that one of my friends has taken when dealing with family transitioning to a plant based diet is
59:34Zoe Novic: Either like talking with their parents and just saying, like, look, you raised me to be like a compassionate person and I'm just trying to incorporate that more into my everyday life. And now into my diet and