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Climate Change and Health Seminar: “Energy System Transformation in Puerto Rico: Enviro/Racial Justice and Public Health Implications”

March 12, 2021

Ruth Santiago, J.D., LL.M; Comité Diálogo Ambiental, Inc., joined the Yale Center on Climate Change and Health's seminar series to discuss her work in Puerto Rico on rooftop solar energy projects, solar communities, and energy democracy.

March 8, 2021

ID
6283

Transcript

  • 00:01- It's our great pleasure today
  • 00:02to have our speaker, Ruth Santiago
  • 00:05from Comite Dialogo Ambiental.
  • 00:09Also as a renowned lawyer and environmental health advocate,
  • 00:14Ruth is a resident of the municipality Salinas
  • 00:19in Puerto Rico, where she has worked with community
  • 00:23and environmental organizations, fisheries associations
  • 00:26and many other groups over the past 30 years
  • 00:30on projects ranging from a community newspaper
  • 00:33to a rooftop solar energy pilot project.
  • 00:37So she has helped the establishment
  • 00:40of broad alliances to prevent the water pollution
  • 00:43from landfills, power plant emissions
  • 00:46and the discharges and the coal combustion residual waste.
  • 00:50Mrs. Santiago earned degrees
  • 00:52from the Lehigh University and at Columbia Law School.
  • 00:56She is also the recipient of the Sierra Club's-
  • 00:58- [Whitney] We maintain the pace
  • 00:59but I expect peace to actually increase.
  • 01:02- Whitney, if you can mute yourself, thank you.
  • 01:05- [Whitney] Yes, I'm sorry.
  • 01:07- Mrs. Santiago is also the Sierra Club's
  • 01:102018 Robert Bullard Environmental Justice Award awardee.
  • 01:16So without further ado, please join me
  • 01:19in welcoming Ruth for giving her presentation.
  • 01:25- Hello, everyone.
  • 01:27Thank you, Dr. Chen and doctors Du Brow
  • 01:30and for all of the students and others
  • 01:33who are tuning in to this meeting.
  • 01:37I'm happy to be with you
  • 01:40and I'm so glad that you're interested
  • 01:42in the environmental justice, climate justice
  • 01:46and health issues here in Puerto Rico.
  • 01:49And so what I'll do now is I'll pull up my...
  • 01:52I have a presentation with some slides
  • 01:56just to facilitate the talk.
  • 02:03Okay. Here we go.
  • 02:04So I hope, can everyone see that okay?
  • 02:10- Yes.
  • 02:11- Okay, great.
  • 02:13So this is obviously a talk
  • 02:17about what we're working very intensely on
  • 02:23and for the transformation in Puerto Rico
  • 02:26of the energy system or the electric system in particular,
  • 02:31and the environmental and racial justice implication,
  • 02:35public health implications of the current system we have.
  • 02:38But first I'm gonna go actually
  • 02:40to what our community-based
  • 02:46and civil society based solutions are
  • 02:50for achieving environmental and racial justice
  • 02:55in public health.
  • 02:56Justice, you can say as well.
  • 02:59Well, I love to show this map
  • 03:01because sometimes people don't really know
  • 03:05where Puerto Rico is.
  • 03:07And so you can see here it's in the Caribbean Sea
  • 03:13and it's called the smallest of the larger Antilles
  • 03:17and the largest of the smaller Antilles.
  • 03:19And it's a relationship on energy issues
  • 03:23throughout the whole Caribbean
  • 03:25which I'll discuss a little bit later.
  • 03:28So as I said, I wanna go to the positive aspect here first.
  • 03:32And I'm sort of using this terminology
  • 03:35about a Green New Deal
  • 03:38and applying it to the local context
  • 03:41to talk about the work that I'm doing
  • 03:44with not only Comite Dialogo Ambiental
  • 03:46but other community, environmental, civil society groups
  • 03:50in general, which I'll show you in a little while
  • 03:53the list of at least the founding organizations.
  • 03:58So basically, we are proposing community empowerment
  • 04:04through participation in the electric system
  • 04:06as what are known as prosumers,
  • 04:09not just passive consumers, but communities,
  • 04:13people being able to participate
  • 04:15in the electric system as producers.
  • 04:18And that usually means with rooftop solar,
  • 04:23and often coupled with battery energy storage systems.
  • 04:27And although we have been working for quite a few years
  • 04:31on this proposal, obviously with Hurricane Maria
  • 04:37in September of 2017
  • 04:41and other so-called natural disasters.
  • 04:44And I say so-called, because hurricanes of course
  • 04:48are natural phenomena,
  • 04:50but we know that they are being aggravated.
  • 04:54They're becoming more intense and more frequent
  • 04:56with the climate crisis.
  • 05:00So what happened, especially after Hurricane Maria
  • 05:03although it's happened for the past 30 years
  • 05:05that I can recall is that the electric grid,
  • 05:12what what was known as the transmission
  • 05:14and distribution system, T&D system,
  • 05:18was totally impacted, brought down
  • 05:21and was not able to transmit or distribute power
  • 05:26throughout the island.
  • 05:28And so there were many lessons that we learned
  • 05:34and one of them was certainly
  • 05:35that communities must become energy literate
  • 05:39and can actually implement measures
  • 05:44to mitigate, to some extent, the damages
  • 05:49related to these centralized fossil fuel-based
  • 05:56energy systems that we see
  • 05:59and that prevails here in Puerto Rico.
  • 06:02So communities should be active participants.
  • 06:06And our public utility, which is known as PREPA
  • 06:08the Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority.
  • 06:11Another big lesson learned was that PREPA needs
  • 06:14a radical transformation, both in terms
  • 06:17of the technology that it uses and as to its governance,
  • 06:22to be more representative
  • 06:23of the civil society sectors here in Puerto Rico.
  • 06:27And then of course, after every major disaster
  • 06:32declaration or situation that has happened here
  • 06:36in Puerto Rico, and as Puerto Rico
  • 06:37is a territory of the United States,
  • 06:40And by the way, we are,
  • 06:42Puerto Ricans are American citizens, US citizens.
  • 06:47The federal agencies came in,
  • 06:50both the Federal Emergency Management Agency
  • 06:52and Housing and Urban Development,
  • 06:54to provide funding which did not materialize.
  • 06:58And to a large extent,
  • 07:01especially the more permanent repairs reconstruction funding
  • 07:08has not yet arrived even.
  • 07:11So we are proposing that when these funds do arrive,
  • 07:17do get actually transferred
  • 07:19to the government of Puerto Rico,
  • 07:22that, and prior to that transfer,
  • 07:24that the federal government earmark those funds
  • 07:28so that the public utility, PREPA,
  • 07:31works with organized communities and local
  • 07:33renewable energy contractors to totally transform
  • 07:39the way that our electric system is built,
  • 07:44and do so in a way that permits energy participation
  • 07:52by prosumers, I should say, communities,
  • 07:54the civil society here.
  • 07:56And we call that energy democracy.
  • 07:58So I actually have a little note there.
  • 08:02And if anyone is interested in collaborating,
  • 08:04we do need help in convincing FEMA and HUD
  • 08:09to earmark those funds
  • 08:11and basically enable the transformation
  • 08:17of the electric system
  • 08:18to a prosumer friendly approach,
  • 08:22as opposed to the centralized approach
  • 08:24that I'll talk about later
  • 08:25and you'll see some of the slides and see what I mean.
  • 08:28So, one of the reasons why
  • 08:32we are proposing primarily rooftop or onsite solar,
  • 08:38battery energy storage systems,
  • 08:40energy efficiency programs and energy literacy programs
  • 08:44is because the groups, including Comite Dialogo Ambiental,
  • 08:48but also many other groups,
  • 08:49about 10 other groups that we're working with
  • 08:53have participated as what are known as interveners,
  • 08:58formal interveners, in a process called
  • 09:00the integrated resource plan for PREPA,
  • 09:04Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority.
  • 09:06And so many jurisdictions have these very intense
  • 09:11planning processes for the future of the electric grids
  • 09:15in their respective jurisdictions.
  • 09:18So I'm pretty sure Connecticut has one,
  • 09:22but, I shouldn't say, but many, many jurisdictions
  • 09:27have public utility commissions.
  • 09:30They might call them something different.
  • 09:31Sometimes they're called public service commissions,
  • 09:36et cetera, that require electric companies
  • 09:41to submit to them the planning for say,
  • 09:46maybe the next 20 years, the period can vary.
  • 09:49But it's to try to determine what the energy needs will be
  • 09:53in a certain timeframe.
  • 09:54Although usually there's like an action plan
  • 09:56for the first five years
  • 09:58and the document obviously can be revised
  • 10:02in three years sometimes.
  • 10:04That's the case here.
  • 10:06And as it's a pretty sophisticated process
  • 10:08that requires a lot of inputs
  • 10:10in terms of demand projections, energy demand projections,
  • 10:16evaluating the current fleet,
  • 10:17determining new technologies, forecasting fuel prices,
  • 10:23et cetera, et cetera, just population trends,
  • 10:26just a lot of inputs in order to come out,
  • 10:29and modeling, to determine what the best mix
  • 10:34of energy infrastructure or programs.
  • 10:38It can be non-wire alternatives
  • 10:43which if you wanna get into that,
  • 10:45we can talk about those, but basically we participated
  • 10:49in this process, both in the first one
  • 10:52and now on the second proceeding and discovered
  • 10:56that PREPA's contractors, Siemens Industry,
  • 11:01actually found that onsite, customer-sited alternatives,
  • 11:07that's basically rooftop solar.
  • 11:08Could be micro wind as well.
  • 11:11Customer-sited alternatives are the most economic option
  • 11:16in Puerto Rico for energy generation.
  • 11:20And it would be significantly lower
  • 11:22than the total rate that PREPA would charge rate payers
  • 11:29if say, we did business as usual.
  • 11:33But it's something that we never understood
  • 11:36in this process was that in fact, in spite of the fact
  • 11:39that rooftop solar was by its own admission,
  • 11:43the PREPA's contractor, Siemens Industry,
  • 11:45saying this is the cheapest way,
  • 11:47at the end of the 20-year planning period,
  • 11:50they only included about 10%
  • 11:54of onsite or customer-sited solar or energy generation
  • 11:59in the generation mix at the end of the planning period.
  • 12:02So this made no sense to us.
  • 12:04And that's why we've been working very hard
  • 12:08to actually push this alternative
  • 12:13and steer away from the other things
  • 12:15that I'll show you a little further along,
  • 12:17and we have lot of support for that,
  • 12:21and not the least of which
  • 12:22is a recent National Renewable Energy Labs study
  • 12:27that indicates that Puerto Rico has four to five times
  • 12:30the rooftop potential or residential solar potential
  • 12:40than the actual demand on the island.
  • 12:44And that over a decade ago,
  • 12:46faculty at the University of Puerto Rico said
  • 12:49pretty much the same thing
  • 12:50and coined this phrase about the rooftop resource.
  • 12:54Any of you who've been here
  • 12:55or know anything about Puerto Rico
  • 12:57is as you saw on the map,
  • 12:59it's a limited geographic extension
  • 13:02but very sprawling kind of development.
  • 13:08You might call it the LA model of development.
  • 13:11Sprawling housing projects and the commercial centers.
  • 13:17And so there's lots of rooftop space here.
  • 13:22And what we've also been able to show
  • 13:26is that renewables plus storage
  • 13:29can supply even the critical energy needs.
  • 13:31That is hospitals, first responders,
  • 13:36water supply, et cetera.
  • 13:38And that coupled with energy efficiency programs,
  • 13:42smart metering, demand response time reviews
  • 13:46can even reduce further the need for energy generation.
  • 13:52I'm sorry for all this wording on the slide.
  • 13:54So basically, let's see, did I jump?
  • 13:59Okay, where am I here?
  • 14:01Okay.
  • 14:02So yeah, this is a simple sort of representation
  • 14:06of what we're saying.
  • 14:07People can now participate in energy generation.
  • 14:11And at the community level, it's even better
  • 14:13because we can have micro grids in case for whatever reason,
  • 14:17given rooftops are not appropriate.
  • 14:21And so this is another way
  • 14:22to explain basically the same thing.
  • 14:25We're really talking about beyond technology.
  • 14:29A technological change.
  • 14:30This is not just a techno change,
  • 14:32not just going to renewables.
  • 14:34Not all renewables are sustainable, we posit.
  • 14:39Because first of all,
  • 14:44we are not in favor necessarily
  • 14:47of land-based renewable energy systems
  • 14:50and actually don't favor that for many, many reasons.
  • 14:56And we do believe that it's more sustainable
  • 15:00to use existing structures and not impact open land
  • 15:04or ecologically sensitive areas or agricultural land.
  • 15:08I know California has a similar provision
  • 15:11about protection for agricultural lands.
  • 15:14And we do favor, as I mentioned, community shared solar
  • 15:18so that the socioeconomic benefits of this generation
  • 15:24is received by the communities.
  • 15:29And it entails citizen empowerment.
  • 15:35Coupled with this technology
  • 15:37to achieve social and environmental justice.
  • 15:41And so this is the actual site
  • 15:45for our civil society proposal.
  • 15:47It's called Queremos Sol.
  • 15:49We want sun is the translation.
  • 15:51And the groups, the founding groups are down here.
  • 15:54And they include not just community environmental groups,
  • 15:58but also you will see that the PREPA,
  • 16:02the largest PREPA union is here.
  • 16:05The Professional Workers Association,
  • 16:10faculty members at the University of Puerto Rico,
  • 16:13the Institute for Energy Economics
  • 16:15and Financial Analysis, et cetera.
  • 16:18Alright, so that was the...
  • 16:22I wanted to put the solutions first.
  • 16:25I think it's important that people know
  • 16:27that we we have a very viable alternative
  • 16:30that we've studied very closely
  • 16:32and are convinced that it can be implemented.
  • 16:35But, now bringing you back to where we are,
  • 16:42we have in Puerto Rico about 97% fossil fuel generation
  • 16:50in terms of energy supply.
  • 16:54And part of that is a coal burning power plant called AES.
  • 16:59It's headquartered in Arlington, Virginia.
  • 17:02The full name is Applied Energy Systems,
  • 17:04but the plant here is called AES Puerto Rico.
  • 17:09And it's been a very problematic operation
  • 17:16both in terms of an environmental,
  • 17:19health and racial aspects and I'll explain why.
  • 17:24I'll start this with a trip that we participated in
  • 17:30to Colombia, South America,
  • 17:35which happens to be the fifth largest exporter
  • 17:37of coal in the world.
  • 17:38And they export just all over.
  • 17:40Turkey, Ireland, Puerto Rico, the US everywhere.
  • 17:43And we actually visited El Cerrejon in La Guajira,
  • 17:48which is one of the largest open pit mines in the world.
  • 17:51But a lot of the coal that is burned here by the AES plant
  • 17:55and here in southeastern Puerto Rico is,
  • 17:58it comes from El Cesar in Colombia as well.
  • 18:01And so these are...
  • 18:04As you can see,
  • 18:09transnational companies,
  • 18:10like really big names in the energy field.
  • 18:13BHP Billington, Anglo American, Glencore.
  • 18:15Those are European, but previously it was ExxonMobil
  • 18:18that was operating at Cerrejon.
  • 18:21And they pay royalties to the Colombian government
  • 18:24but the impacts have been just terrible
  • 18:29in terms of public health there
  • 18:31and displacement of the Wayuu
  • 18:34and Afro-descendant communities.
  • 18:37Many of the communities claim
  • 18:38there've been no previous consultation or informed consent
  • 18:42in order to use their lands, their water,
  • 18:45the water resources that we saw,
  • 18:47and I'll show you a photograph terribly impacted.
  • 18:51And in addition to that, when we visited the mine
  • 18:56and all of the open pits,
  • 18:59we saw that there's a lot of water usage
  • 19:02to do a lot of dust control at the mine.
  • 19:04And yet outside in the towns nearby,
  • 19:07people often do not have running water.
  • 19:10So terrible environmental justice issue there.
  • 19:14And this is the smallest open pit mine, El Tajo Patilla,
  • 19:20they call it.
  • 19:21And Dr. Hilda Lorenz and I participated in this meeting
  • 19:29with a group called witness for peace
  • 19:34organized by Dr. Aviva Chomsky.
  • 19:39And so this is one of the tributaries
  • 19:43to Rio Rancheria that we saw
  • 19:46a couple of years ago on our trip,
  • 19:48and that has now been...
  • 19:49It was in the process.
  • 19:50There was an ongoing controversy
  • 19:53about whether the mine could change the course
  • 19:56of this tributary and it did,
  • 19:58and this would be the 14th tributary
  • 20:01that was impacted by the mining operations.
  • 20:06And so people understandably are very concerned
  • 20:10about their lack of access to water.
  • 20:12You can see in the sign.
  • 20:13It says, "We're defending our access to water."
  • 20:17And the mining companies basically are the primary culprits
  • 20:23for the lack of access to water in Colombia,
  • 20:26in those mining communities.
  • 20:28So let's get back to Puerto Rico.
  • 20:30And as you can see, this is sort of a picture
  • 20:35of the trajectory of the hurricanes in the past.
  • 20:38I think this is the past 100 years.
  • 20:42And they all usually come in through the east
  • 20:45and then go out through the west.
  • 20:46And the next slide will show you what that means
  • 20:50in terms of the electric system.
  • 20:52So these are the major electric lines.
  • 20:54I'm here in Salinas and AS is here in Guayama.
  • 20:58This is southwestern Puerto Rico.
  • 20:59And what you can see, these big, blue lines,
  • 21:01they're high voltage transmission lines.
  • 21:04So Puerto Rico has a peculiarity
  • 21:05that most of its energy generation
  • 21:07is on the southern coastal.
  • 21:09You see those big numbers, those are the big power plants.
  • 21:12And most of its energy demand is on the north coast
  • 21:16in the San Juan Metro area and other places in the north.
  • 21:20And so these lines, think of it again,
  • 21:23are impacted constantly, not just after Hurricane Maria
  • 21:27by hurricanes coming in and taking down in part,
  • 21:32usually it was in part, right after...
  • 21:35I mean, I don't wanna go into all the detail,
  • 21:37but Hurricane Hugo on, part,
  • 21:40always part of these lines were impacted.
  • 21:43And Hurricane Maria was, well,
  • 21:45it's sort of unique in that everything went down.
  • 21:51So we were 100% without power.
  • 21:53So basically what we see
  • 21:55is that the current electric system
  • 21:57is this very centralized transmission distribution,
  • 22:01lots of fossil generation.
  • 22:04PREPA owns about 4,630 megawatts of fossil generation
  • 22:10and about 100 megawatts of hydroelectric
  • 22:13but only about 60, maybe even less are functional
  • 22:16in the hydro generation.
  • 22:20PREPA also has contracts.
  • 22:22What they call power purchase and operation agreements
  • 22:24with private companies.
  • 22:26One is called EcoElectrica.
  • 22:27It's a gas-fired power plant in southwestern Puerto Rico.
  • 22:30And I mentioned AES,
  • 22:33which I'm gonna get into more detail further along
  • 22:36is a coal burning power plant.
  • 22:41Also PREPA has some renewable energy projects,
  • 22:45very small amount that it has
  • 22:47power purchase and operation agreements with.
  • 22:50Problem with these projects are not just
  • 22:52the land requirements involved, but also that they depend
  • 22:56on this vulnerable centralized transmission
  • 22:58and distribution system, because they're sited far away
  • 23:02from the the man center.
  • 23:06So where the energy is needed.
  • 23:07So they were also out of service after the hurricane.
  • 23:14And, but there is some...
  • 23:17And this has increased probably about 100 megawatts
  • 23:19of installed, distributed or onsite generation.
  • 23:22And that held up the best after the hurricanes.
  • 23:26And we need to realize that energy demand in Puerto Rico
  • 23:31is decreasing constantly.
  • 23:34And it is now, right now, it's under 2000 megawatts.
  • 23:38And in the summer, it goes up a little bit more,
  • 23:40but as you can see, we have about three times
  • 23:44the installed generation capacity as the demand.
  • 23:48So this is sort of a pie chart that I prepared
  • 23:52talking about our energy mix showing,
  • 23:54and then what Siemens Industry
  • 23:57along with PREPA were proposing.
  • 23:58And it's basically a, this.
  • 24:02It's a huge, huge rollout of what is known as natural gas.
  • 24:11Otherwise, methane gas.
  • 24:15And the gas as you know, is largely,
  • 24:23the gas boom is largely a result of the fracking industry
  • 24:28that especially has started.
  • 24:32Or since I guess about the early 2000s
  • 24:37just took off in the States and elsewhere now.
  • 24:40So there's fracking in a lot of other countries as well
  • 24:43and so basically a glut of fracked gas
  • 24:47that is being pushed onto places like Puerto Rico,
  • 24:54Jamaica, other places in the Caribbean,
  • 24:56Mexico, Latin America in general.
  • 24:59And this was part of Siemens' plans
  • 25:02Siemens and the government of Puerto Rico plan
  • 25:04in the IRP to build all of these terminals,
  • 25:09both offshore, onshore, LNG terminals.
  • 25:13And the reason why it's liquified natural gas
  • 25:16is because you probably all know that gas
  • 25:19in its liquid state is a smaller volume.
  • 25:24A lot smaller, takes up a lot less space
  • 25:27and that's how they can transport it
  • 25:29to the Caribbean and other places.
  • 25:32But so that was the plan.
  • 25:35And also you probably all know
  • 25:39that Puerto Rico was even before the hurricane
  • 25:44in the midst of an economic and fiscal crisis,
  • 25:48in addition to the climate crisis.
  • 25:50We've also had earthquakes
  • 25:51and now of course, the COVID pandemic.
  • 25:55And unfortunately we have not been able to respond
  • 26:00to all of these crises due in large part
  • 26:05to the development policies that have been implemented
  • 26:09since the late 1940s, starting with what was known
  • 26:13as Operation Bootstrap, which centered on...
  • 26:18Operation Bootstrap was a rapid industrialization project
  • 26:21moving away from say, Shirky monoculture,
  • 26:24which was what happened
  • 26:26during the first half of the 20th century in PR.
  • 26:30So this rapid industrialization project was,
  • 26:34or program by the government was centered
  • 26:36on incredibly generous corporate tax exemption policies
  • 26:41at every level, right?
  • 26:43It was at the Puerto Rico state level, municipal,
  • 26:47just all kinds of tax breaks
  • 26:50to entice foreign corporations,
  • 26:53mostly US-based corporations, a lot of Canadian as well
  • 26:56and European corporates interests coming in
  • 27:02to invest in Puerto Rico.
  • 27:04And that was also coupled by even federal tax exemptions,
  • 27:08what was known as the IRS code section 936,
  • 27:10although it had different iterations.
  • 27:13But basically the idea was to attract these industries
  • 27:17and have them create jobs locally and alleviate poverty
  • 27:22but it didn't work.
  • 27:25And so we still have currently
  • 27:26about a 46% poverty rate and a very high unemployment rate.
  • 27:33And in Salinas here in southeastern Puerto Rico,
  • 27:37Salinas, Guayama, Arroyo, it's even higher.
  • 27:40It's much higher.
  • 27:41The median household income here is about one third
  • 27:44that of the US, and yet we pay
  • 27:47about the second or third highest electric rates
  • 27:51of any US jurisdiction.
  • 27:54And the government is heavily indebted.
  • 27:57Has a huge debt, which you may know
  • 28:00has led to a bankruptcy type case
  • 28:05for the Puerto Rico government.
  • 28:07And it's coupled with an emergency management
  • 28:10and bankruptcy provisions.
  • 28:13And there's been mass migration.
  • 28:15About some 100,000 people,
  • 28:17mostly working aged people.
  • 28:19And lots of professionals, doctors.
  • 28:22And so what we're seeing, especially in this region
  • 28:26in southeastern Puerto Rico known as the Guayama region
  • 28:29is even higher poverty rates and unemployment rates.
  • 28:32Schools and hospital closings.
  • 28:35And this is what we call...
  • 28:39So then, sorry, the name of the statute is PROMESA,
  • 28:42the Puerto Rico Oversight Management
  • 28:43and Economic Stability Act.
  • 28:47There's been no economic stability.
  • 28:48It's just leading to poverty as the sign says.
  • 28:51(speaking in foreign language)
  • 28:52And so those statistics that I mentioned
  • 28:56in terms of southeastern Puerto Rico are one part
  • 29:00of the environmental justice problem here.
  • 29:04The other part of the environmental justice problem here
  • 29:06is that most of the...
  • 29:09The two most contaminating power plants on the island
  • 29:12are located in this region, in Guayama region
  • 29:15here in southeastern Puerto Rico.
  • 29:17And they are, as I mentioned,
  • 29:18the AES coal-burning power plant,
  • 29:20and the largest electrical complex in Puerto Rico,
  • 29:23the Aguirre Power Complex.
  • 29:26So they are one and two in terms of toxic emissions.
  • 29:30And you'll see something else
  • 29:32about AES in the coming slides.
  • 29:36So obviously, coal combustion from the AES plant
  • 29:42includes CO2 emissions, mercury, many other heavy metals.
  • 29:50But in addition to that, people are also impacted.
  • 29:53And very few people think
  • 29:54about the energy water nexus,
  • 29:57but it's very critical here because AES
  • 30:03extracts water from what is known
  • 30:04as the South Coast Aquifer.
  • 30:07That South Coast Aquifer is the sole source
  • 30:10of potable water for tens of thousands of people.
  • 30:14And then in addition to that, AES discharges,
  • 30:20for a while, it was supposed to be
  • 30:22a zero water discharge facility
  • 30:25but it was actually from the beginning
  • 30:27illegally discharging contaminated water into the bay.
  • 30:32And it also has contaminated the South Coast Aquifer,
  • 30:36not only extracting water
  • 30:38but also contaminating the water with coal ash waste
  • 30:42or formerly known as coal combustion residuals.
  • 30:45Because this plant, incredibly has no disposal facility
  • 30:50for the millions of tons of coal ash waste
  • 30:53that it generates or it has generated.
  • 30:56It's about 300,000 a year.
  • 30:58This is the slide.
  • 30:59So if you look at this photograph on the left here,
  • 31:04my left, I hope it's your left.
  • 31:07This is coal ash waste.
  • 31:08And as you can see, it's going into a storm water system.
  • 31:14And that means, of course, that other water bodies
  • 31:18will be contaminated with this coal ash waste.
  • 31:21So coal ash waste or coal combustion residuals
  • 31:25are basically a...
  • 31:28What's left after burning coal.
  • 31:31And because it's inorganic, are the heavy metals
  • 31:35and the radioactive isotopes
  • 31:37and that's what coal ash waste is.
  • 31:40And by the way, this is a huge problem
  • 31:41in the States as well.
  • 31:43Because as you can see, about 100 million.
  • 31:45That's even with the closure of all the coal plants,
  • 31:48of many coal plants in the States
  • 31:50there's still quite a few operating
  • 31:52and they generate about 100 million tons of coal ash waste.
  • 31:58Some of it is used, what they call as a beneficial product.
  • 32:03And some of it is encapsulated in gypsum board.
  • 32:07But a lot of it, most of it is either disposed
  • 32:11in impoundments which leach the contaminants
  • 32:15into other water bodies or at waste hills,
  • 32:19which if not properly lined and managed can also leach.
  • 32:22So that, as I said, that the AES plant here generates.
  • 32:26And this is what it looks like.
  • 32:29And this coal ash mountain was exposed,
  • 32:35is constantly exposed to the hurricane winds
  • 32:39or just regular Caribbean breeze.
  • 32:42And also, especially after, during the hurricanes,
  • 32:47it gets dispersed quite a bit.
  • 32:50And so this is the sort of the detail
  • 32:53of the kinds of things that we found
  • 32:55in a test of the coal ash waste
  • 32:57here on the AES coal ash.
  • 32:59So you can see these are pretty hefty,
  • 33:02heavy metals of concern.
  • 33:04Arsenic, barium, boron, manganese, selenium, vanadium,
  • 33:08among other elevated levels of metals and alpha particles.
  • 33:12And so it is, it does include radioactive materials.
  • 33:17And so the reason why this has been happening
  • 33:23in the States for over a century and here in Puerto Rico
  • 33:26since the AES plant opened up
  • 33:28was because the test that was used
  • 33:34to determine the leaching potential of coal ash waste,
  • 33:38that is the ability to release these heavy metals
  • 33:42into the environment, was for many years not the right test.
  • 33:47And so this new test is, we were able to get
  • 33:52the coal ash here tested with this new framework,
  • 33:55which does determine the leaching capacities
  • 33:59of this coal ash waste into groundwater surface,
  • 34:03superficial water into the land.
  • 34:07And so what happened as a result
  • 34:10of all of these investigations
  • 34:12is that we were able to get
  • 34:14the University of Puerto Rico Graduate School
  • 34:16of Public Health do two epidemiological studies.
  • 34:20And they both basically confirm
  • 34:23that the communities in Guayama closest
  • 34:26to the AES coal plant have multiple times the incidence
  • 34:31of respiratory disease, cardiovascular diseases,
  • 34:35cancers obviously, and even spontaneous abortions,
  • 34:41more so than the control community
  • 34:44in northeast Puerto Rico,
  • 34:46not impacted by the coal ash waste.
  • 34:51And so, as I said, that the coal industry
  • 34:57for a very long time has promoted
  • 34:59the so-called beneficial use.
  • 35:01They even call it, they give it these really cute names
  • 35:05like Agremax here in Puerto Rico,
  • 35:07and in Florida, I think it's called easy...
  • 35:13I'm sorry, I forget what it is
  • 35:14but the coal industry has really marketed
  • 35:19its coal ash waste very well.
  • 35:20But as you can see in the photograph,
  • 35:24this is a housing development that was being built.
  • 35:26I talk about sprawling housing construction here.
  • 35:29Here is an example, but it was filled
  • 35:32with coal ash waste, coal combustion residuals.
  • 35:35And during the construction,
  • 35:37all of the fuel treated dust was constantly in the air.
  • 35:40And it was used primarily in flood prone areas
  • 35:44above the sole-source aquifer in proximity to wetlands
  • 35:47and ecologically sensitive areas.
  • 35:50And also heavily populated areas
  • 35:52because Puerto Rico is one
  • 35:53of the most heavily populated places in the world.
  • 35:58And this, by the way is also a very big problem in India,
  • 36:01in many other places.
  • 36:04So, it has led to unsustainable development
  • 36:08and impacts to, for example, mangrove, canals, et cetera.
  • 36:14And this, in the photograph you can see,
  • 36:17this was a storm water retention pond
  • 36:20built with coal ash waste.
  • 36:22So obviously this leeches into the water.
  • 36:26That connects with the groundwater
  • 36:28and also discharges into a nearby river.
  • 36:32So this is getting to be a very widespread problem.
  • 36:41So we do now have a law to prohibit the use
  • 36:50of the coal ash waste as film material
  • 36:51and for these uses.
  • 36:56But it is very much a race to the bottom phenomenon,
  • 36:58where industries or jurisdictions
  • 37:02both in the US and globally seek to attract low cost.
  • 37:06And I put that, you know, within air quotes.
  • 37:10Low cost, except the externalities are very high cost.
  • 37:15And then, so this is a classic definition
  • 37:17of environmental injustice
  • 37:19that jurisdictions that have the ability to regulate
  • 37:23do not exercise or do not implement
  • 37:26those protective elements.
  • 37:27There's lax enforcement and really insufficient resources
  • 37:32on the part of the government
  • 37:34to enforce any existing provisions.
  • 37:37And so you see more and more of it.
  • 37:40This is what we call environmental and racial injustice.
  • 37:44That was actually in the photograph.
  • 37:46A child playing among a pile of coal ash waste
  • 37:52of heavy metals and radioactive materials.
  • 37:58And so that coupled, this disproportionate impact
  • 38:04and burden on people,
  • 38:06coupled with the environmental justice criteria
  • 38:10that include a higher than average
  • 38:13or higher than the Puerto Rico average
  • 38:15Afro-descendant community, closing of hospitals
  • 38:21and the high poverty rates
  • 38:24creates a situation where people are unjustly burdened.
  • 38:32But as I said, the AES corporation
  • 38:38actually marketed this coal ash
  • 38:40and created a sham recycling operation
  • 38:43till about, as I recall, 2012.
  • 38:48And we are getting some kind of regulation now.
  • 38:52As I mentioned, there is a law that was passed last year
  • 38:56and we're awaiting a regulation to prohibit
  • 38:59the use of the...
  • 39:00The unencapsulated use of coal ash waste.
  • 39:04And this is just citing authorities
  • 39:06about how political bodies like municipal governments
  • 39:09have what is known as the police power
  • 39:13to safeguard the health and welfare of residents.
  • 39:18And of course, there's this problem with federal preemption
  • 39:24and which set of laws will actually apply.
  • 39:30And in effect, although we've gotten about,
  • 39:34I think it was about 15 municipal ordinances
  • 39:38out of the 78 municipalities here in Puerto Rico
  • 39:40had passed provisions to prevent the use of coal ash waste.
  • 39:46Basically, that was preempted later on.
  • 39:50But then we got the law passed that prohibits the use
  • 39:53of the coal ash waste.
  • 39:56And that's just
  • 39:56like citing the Resource Conservation Recovery Act
  • 39:59that the states within the federalism system,
  • 40:06and Puerto Rico for that purpose
  • 40:08is considered a state, are not prohibited
  • 40:12from either the state or its political subdivisions.
  • 40:15That is like the municipalities, counties, et cetera.
  • 40:19from imposing stricter requirements
  • 40:22on these kinds of operations,
  • 40:25such as, including site selection and imposing regulations.
  • 40:32But of course, the regulatory and litigation costs are high
  • 40:36in order to achieve the kinds of provisions
  • 40:43that are protective of human health and the environment.
  • 40:46And so it puts the burden
  • 40:49on environmental justice communities
  • 40:52and state governments or local government entities.
  • 41:00So now, I'm jumping over to the Dominican Republic
  • 41:03just because I wanted to close the circle
  • 41:05about how we saw in Colombia,
  • 41:08the extraction process going on.
  • 41:10Here in Puerto Rico, it's the combustion of the coal
  • 41:16that creates a coal ash waste
  • 41:17and all of the emissions and water contamination, et cetera.
  • 41:21What happened with the coal ash waste in Puerto Rico
  • 41:24was that it was taken to the Dominican Republic,
  • 41:29to a place called Arroyo Barril
  • 41:32and people were told that they could use this
  • 41:37as film material, or they can use this
  • 41:40as construction material within their own homes.
  • 41:44And apparently did so.
  • 41:46And suddenly, children were born with defects.
  • 41:51As you can see in the photo, the child is missing his arms.
  • 41:56And there were quite a few cases
  • 41:58that were brought and ultimately settled by AES.
  • 42:02This is the first settlement agreement
  • 42:04when AES was sued by the government of Dominican Republic.
  • 42:12And then let's go to another island in the Caribbean
  • 42:15that is trying to move away from fossil fuel generation.
  • 42:19And I really liked what...
  • 42:22This was a conference I attended on the climate crisis.
  • 42:26And the message that they were transmitting
  • 42:34is that the key to success was that energy prices
  • 42:38in the US Virgin Islands were high,
  • 42:41but they are no higher than what energy prices should be
  • 42:43if the external costs of burning fossil fuel,
  • 42:47pollution, climate change, and it should say,
  • 42:49health impacts are considered.
  • 42:54Okay, so this is...
  • 42:56Well, I think this is my next to last slide.
  • 42:59This was a symbolic protest that was held here
  • 43:02in Puerto Rico after hurricane Maria.
  • 43:05The shoes represent people who passed away
  • 43:09as a result of the hurricane
  • 43:11and to a large extent of not having electric power.
  • 43:16And that number is disputed
  • 43:19but it's anywhere between about 3000, 5000 people that died.
  • 43:24And so this in the map here on top shows Puerto Rico
  • 43:30prior and after the hurricane.
  • 43:34And so, I wanna emphasize
  • 43:38that when we talk about the transformation
  • 43:41that's needed here in Puerto Rico,
  • 43:43it's not just about not burning fossil fuels.
  • 43:46It's also about not transmitting energy long distances
  • 43:51because as we said, these transmission systems
  • 43:55and distribution systems are vulnerable and can,
  • 43:58even with renewable energy projects being,
  • 44:00say, down here in Southern Puerto Rico,
  • 44:03they need to be transmitted.
  • 44:04And so that's why we talk about onsite and rooftop solar
  • 44:08as being a better solution.
  • 44:11And because these transmission systems lose energy
  • 44:15on the way, and also are very expensive
  • 44:18and represent sort of an opportunity cost
  • 44:21against actually onsite energy generation,
  • 44:29which by definition has to be cleaner
  • 44:32so as not to impact public health.
  • 44:35And so that I think is the issue.
  • 44:40Should we be rebuilding with the existing
  • 44:43centralized fossil fuel system?
  • 44:45Or can we convince FEMA, HUD and the federal government
  • 44:50to allow for onsite generation.
  • 44:54Rooftop solar primarily coupled
  • 44:55with battery energy storage systems
  • 44:58and thereby protect public health here.
  • 45:03And that I think is all.
  • 45:07And if you have any questions, please feel free.
  • 45:12- Thanks, Ruth.
  • 45:13This is very wonderful presentation.
  • 45:15And you talk about the environmental and racial justice
  • 45:19not just within Puerto Rico
  • 45:21but also in the frontline communities in Colombia
  • 45:25and also in the Dominican Republic.
  • 45:28So a lot of powerful messages here.
  • 45:31I do have a lot of questions students already submitted.
  • 45:35And for all the audiences, if you have questions,
  • 45:39please type in your questions in the chat box.
  • 45:42So Ruth, you mentioned about the coal ash waste
  • 45:48and how it could be, you know, during the hurricane,
  • 45:52during the big storms, the ashes can flood into the water
  • 45:57and this makes no doubt
  • 45:59that the coal ash waste are very vulnerable
  • 46:03to this climate disaster.
  • 46:06For the students that are actually wondering,
  • 46:07a lot this clean energy options
  • 46:10like the solar, roof solar energy projects.
  • 46:14Have you considered
  • 46:16how that this new renewable energy system,
  • 46:20the resistance to the climate disasters
  • 46:24in particular, the hurricanes?
  • 46:27- Okay, well, if I'm understanding correctly,
  • 46:30so, are you saying how resistant
  • 46:34are rooftop solar installations to the climate,
  • 46:38to the increased hurricanes?
  • 46:40Well, what we found is that they do pretty well because...
  • 46:46I don't have official data, but it's between
  • 46:49five and 10% of the panels were impacted by the hurricane
  • 46:53as opposed to 80% of the transmission system.
  • 46:57And the interesting thing about panels.
  • 47:01One, is they can be hardened to withstand very strong winds.
  • 47:06Second, because of the latitude where we are,
  • 47:08especially here in Puerto Rico, they're almost flat.
  • 47:11They don't need that 45 angles,
  • 47:14as, you know, further a jurisdiction further in the north.
  • 47:17And third, people here even have contests
  • 47:22to take down their panels and see how fast they can do it.
  • 47:27So I've heard 20 minutes for a very smaller rate.
  • 47:31We also promote very smaller rates for critical needs
  • 47:34within the household, like four to six panels and batteries.
  • 47:39And so they can be taken down as well.
  • 47:41So there are many options.
  • 47:43And like I said, even what we saw is that solar farms
  • 47:51and wind farms did not hold up during the hurricane
  • 47:54as well as the panels on rooftops.
  • 47:57For example, there was a wind farm
  • 47:59on the eastern coast of Puerto Rico, which no longer exists.
  • 48:01It was called Punta Lima.
  • 48:04The hurricane took it away.
  • 48:07And the panels on the east coast there
  • 48:09that were on a wind farm also would severely damaged.
  • 48:16But yeah, the rooftop holds up pretty well.
  • 48:20- I think, yeah, that's very promising
  • 48:22and very interesting.
  • 48:25That is great news to the transition.
  • 48:29This second question the students are kind of wondering
  • 48:32is regarding the renewable energy.
  • 48:35Here, we're mostly talking about the solar energy,
  • 48:38but have you, could you give us more information
  • 48:41regarding other types of renewable energy
  • 48:44like the tide power or other, like offshore wind power?
  • 48:53- Right. Yeah.
  • 48:54We've discussed that a lot of those other options.
  • 48:57Offshore wind largely has the problem with the hurricanes.
  • 49:01I think jurisdictions that are prone to hurricanes
  • 49:06would be probably better served by systems
  • 49:13that don't don't have these vertical structures
  • 49:17because they are impacted by hurricanes.
  • 49:21And as you know, even the hurricanes now
  • 49:25are even reaching the northeast US.
  • 49:30So I don't know how well offshore wind
  • 49:35is gonna hold up to that.
  • 49:36That remains to be seen.
  • 49:38That on the one hand.
  • 49:39In terms of tidal energy,
  • 49:42there's an experiment going on right now
  • 49:44in southeastern Puerto Rico offshore.
  • 49:47I don't know too much about it, but I am concerned
  • 49:50and I think those of us who are in the environmental field
  • 49:54are concerned about impacts to the water column,
  • 49:57because a lot of the reproduction
  • 50:00of marine species like egg larvae,
  • 50:05and egg and fish larvae and eggs can,
  • 50:09I think be impacted by a manipulation of the water
  • 50:15from the shallow, sorry, the bottom part of the ocean
  • 50:20to the top.
  • 50:21And I think that's how basically it works.
  • 50:23So I think that might create some unexpected impacts
  • 50:27in the marine environment.
  • 50:30So that also to me is a question mark.
  • 50:34- Ruth, thanks.
  • 50:35Yes, we do need to consider not just human health
  • 50:37but also like the coastal environmental ecosystems.
  • 50:42So another question from the audience is,
  • 50:46the first one is from Maggie asking.
  • 50:50I was going to ask how much interconnectivity
  • 50:53there is in support of Puerto Rico's advocacy
  • 50:58as part of global advocacy.
  • 51:00I'm not sure it's a question or just a comment.
  • 51:07- Okay.
  • 51:09Well, in terms of this, for example,
  • 51:12the work that we've done on coal,
  • 51:15anti-coal combustion and especially coal ash waste work,
  • 51:20it is almost on a global scale.
  • 51:24We have been working with groups throughout the US.
  • 51:28We were actually part of a listserv throughout the US.
  • 51:34I think there are people from other countries as well,
  • 51:37and we've done, had some connections, as I said,
  • 51:40with the Dominican Republic, Colombia, Virgin islands,
  • 51:45here in the Caribbean basin area,
  • 51:48and some experiences in other countries as well,
  • 51:54on especially the coal ash waste issue.
  • 51:58It's a huge problem.
  • 51:59It's like the asbestos of our time
  • 52:05in terms of the implications that it has
  • 52:08for dispersing into air, water, land
  • 52:14and affecting public health.
  • 52:17In terms of renewable energy,
  • 52:18also, we're linked with groups throughout the States
  • 52:26and a little bit now with groups in the Dominican Republic.
  • 52:31Yeah.
  • 52:32- Yeah. So, yeah.
  • 52:33Since we're talking about like the kind of connection
  • 52:36with the mainland, there's one question from the students.
  • 52:40Is particular interested about,
  • 52:42after the major storms, Hurricane Maria,
  • 52:44lots of interests from the mainland paid to Puerto Rico
  • 52:48and especially after the Green New Deal.
  • 52:51So do you feel that there are more positives
  • 52:55that come out of this increased attention
  • 52:58from the mainland, the politicians and the public
  • 53:01or the other way?
  • 53:05- Okay.
  • 53:06Certainly.
  • 53:07Puerto Rico after Hurricane Maria
  • 53:11became a better known place.
  • 53:14I've often been to places where...
  • 53:19And that's why I put the map on my slide there
  • 53:20because I've been to places where people don't really know
  • 53:24what or where Puerto Rico is.
  • 53:26People in the States often, especially before the hurricane,
  • 53:31did not know that Puerto Rico was part of the United States.
  • 53:34That happened to me quite a lot.
  • 53:37Yes.
  • 53:38So this attention, this renewed attention,
  • 53:41I think is largely positive.
  • 53:44I think people have good faith in the States
  • 53:47and the Puerto Rican diaspora were life savers
  • 53:50after the hurricane because the government did not respond.
  • 53:54And people, we were in touch with so many people
  • 53:58and groups throughout the States
  • 54:00that were trying to help the situation
  • 54:02and in the solar energy field,
  • 54:05not just in terms of providing, first being,
  • 54:09the first provision of food and clean water and et cetera
  • 54:14but also bringing in more and more of the solar technology.
  • 54:20So, I think it's definitely positive.
  • 54:22Now, I should say, there's this one negative part about it.
  • 54:25And it was the natural gas industry.
  • 54:29The LNG industry also came in right after the hurricane.
  • 54:33And you saw that Siemens Industry map
  • 54:36talking about building all of this LNG infrastructure
  • 54:40on the island.
  • 54:41And there has been, there is sort of a battle going on
  • 54:45for the electric system here,
  • 54:47to rebuild it either as it was with so-called hardening
  • 54:51and undergrounding versus what we are proposing
  • 54:55in Queremos Sol, which is a civil society,
  • 54:59prosumer oriented, energy democracy focus.
  • 55:05- Ruth, thanks, yeah.
  • 55:06I think regarding the gas energy alternative
  • 55:11on the fracking way is another heated topic,
  • 55:14which hopefully will help some other speakers
  • 55:18cover this in the future.
  • 55:20But I do have another question from the audience,
  • 55:22from Kyle Wyche.
  • 55:23So, Kyle, do you want to ask yourself.
  • 55:29- Sure, I'm happy to ask.
  • 55:32I was kinda curious.
  • 55:33We talked a lot about solar energy
  • 55:35and that being a perfect renewable energy,
  • 55:38but I'm also curious,
  • 55:39what happens to the local food waste in Puerto Rico?
  • 55:41And if that is being reused,
  • 55:43if it's going to compost, anything like that.
  • 55:45I'm particularly interested in turning food waste
  • 55:48into renewable energy, and then also
  • 55:50a nutrient dense liquid plant fertilizers
  • 55:52that can be used again for crops or hydroponics
  • 55:55instead of creating new land for agriculture
  • 55:57and things like that.
  • 55:59- Okay, thanks for the question, Kyle.
  • 56:02Yeah, we have a huge problem here with our landfills.
  • 56:06The first environmental case I ever worked on
  • 56:10back in the '90s was what would have been
  • 56:13the largest landfill here.
  • 56:15It was again over the South Coast Aquifer.
  • 56:18So we were totally against creating a big hole
  • 56:21in the earth to potentially contaminate the water supply.
  • 56:27And we worked for many years at Comite Dialogo Ambiental
  • 56:32and many, many other groups.
  • 56:35I have worked for the reduction, reuse or recycling programs
  • 56:43and composting, of course.
  • 56:45It has not been successful at all.
  • 56:48I have to say in all honesty that we have a law
  • 56:51with very ambitious goals that have not been achieved.
  • 56:57It's a fiasco.
  • 56:59There've been numerous waste energy projects proposed here
  • 57:05that basically involve some kind of some incineration
  • 57:10or paralysis of those materials,
  • 57:13that have been not acceptable to civil society groups.
  • 57:18In fact, one of the co-founding groups
  • 57:21of Queremos Sol, it's called, Coalicion Anti-Incineracion,
  • 57:25anti-incineration coalition.
  • 57:27They have been very active in fighting that sort of thing.
  • 57:33I don't know enough about the technologies
  • 57:38for waste management or...
  • 57:43Yeah.
  • 57:50Bio energy programs.
  • 57:51I confess, I don't know enough about those.
  • 57:54In fact, I wanna say something interesting though.
  • 57:58On Thursday, I think it is,
  • 58:00Yale is having a conference
  • 58:04or we're having this little symposium or discussion
  • 58:09between groups from Puerto Rico and Cuba.
  • 58:14And in the materials that the Cuban contingent sent,
  • 58:18they apparently do a lot of that composting and biofuels
  • 58:24but I don't know.
  • 58:26I'm gonna learn, so sorry about that.
  • 58:31- Thanks, Ruth.
  • 58:32I think we are almost on time
  • 58:34and I do have one final question from the audience
  • 58:37is regarding other system of renewable energy,
  • 58:42you're talking about these projects.
  • 58:44Are they facing oppositions
  • 58:45from the coal plants in Puerto Rico?
  • 58:48What about the political atmosphere there?
  • 58:52Obviously, students are also kind of wondering this.
  • 58:55- Oh yeah.
  • 58:56Okay.
  • 58:57So, the coal plant issue is, right now,
  • 59:01it's the the most known, well-known environmental issue
  • 59:08and problem in Puerto Rico.
  • 59:10And there've been massive mobilizations
  • 59:13and all kinds of laws and regulations
  • 59:15and just everything possible that fortunately
  • 59:18all of Puerto Rico has basically joined in this fight.
  • 59:23And so there's a law that require,
  • 59:25and in the IRP, in fact,
  • 59:27the Integrated Resource Plan that I mentioned
  • 59:29that we were a part of,
  • 59:30it states that the coal burning power plant
  • 59:34has to shut down by 2027,
  • 59:36because that's when the power purchase
  • 59:38and operation agreement ends.
  • 59:40And actually the groups want to shut it down before then.
  • 59:44So there has been quite a lot of opposition to the coal.
  • 59:52And what we're saying is that instead,
  • 59:55we can use massive rooftop solar installation
  • 59:59to substitute that plant and other plants as well.
  • 01:00:04And we are seeing, for example,
  • 01:00:07there is also an ongoing privatization process
  • 01:00:11of the Puerto Rico Electric Power Authority.
  • 01:00:13And the company is a conglomerate
  • 01:00:16between Quanta Services and ATCO which,
  • 01:00:19one is a US and one is a Canadian company
  • 01:00:23that put together something called Luma Energy
  • 01:00:26in order to operate the transmission
  • 01:00:28and distribution system here.
  • 01:00:30And they are very much against onsite solar,
  • 01:00:33because their business is to keep
  • 01:00:35those long distance transmission
  • 01:00:37and distribution lines going
  • 01:00:39and take all those federal funds to do...
  • 01:00:42I call it trickle down energy.
  • 01:00:45When you do long distance transmission distribution,
  • 01:00:49you're doing indirectly what you can do more efficiently
  • 01:00:53with onsite generation, rooftop solar.
  • 01:00:57And, but so yes, we're seeing resistance
  • 01:01:00from the big gas and oil and Siemens Industry
  • 01:01:05that sells big combined cycle generators
  • 01:01:10and Luma Energy and just the usual fossil fuel
  • 01:01:15and centralized generation companies.
  • 01:01:19- Yeah, thank you for sharing this perspective.
  • 01:01:22So with that, I think we can end today's seminar.
  • 01:01:25So once again, thank you, Ruth
  • 01:01:27for giving this excellent presentation.
  • 01:01:30Very much appreciate.
  • 01:01:31And thank you all for coming on this thing at the end.
  • 01:01:35- My pleasure.